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How to lock down your phone if you're traveling to the U.S.

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Re: How to lock down your phone if you're traveling to the U.S.

#51

Post by fn-mote »

hangonhn wrote: post #37
gruez wrote: post #4

"Locking down" is almost always a bad approach when it comes to border crossings. You have very little rights at the border, so keeping your phone locked and refusing to divulge the 20 characters password isn't really an option. Even without the threat of detaining you, they can refuse entry (if you're not a citizen/permanent resident), or seize your $1000 phone/laptop. Far better to wipe your phone and restore from…

Does anyone more knowledgable know if US citizen 5th amendment rights still applies at the border, i.e. I can't legally be compelled to unlock my phone at the US border? Law is not my area of expertise at all. (The article might have addressed this but it's behind a paywall.) Thanks in advance.

The ACLU has authoritative advice [1]. The article about electronic device searches [2] explains that the government claims the right to search devices without a warrant at the border.

> U.S. citizens cannot be denied entry to the United States for refusing to provide passwords or unlocking devices. Refusal to do so might lead to delay, additional questioning, and/or officers seizing your device for further inspection. [...] If an officer searches and/or confiscates your laptop or cell phone, get a receipt for your property.

[1]: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter...

[2]: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/can-border-agen...

Re: How to lock down your phone if you're traveling to the U.S.

#53

Post by ty6853 »

joshdavham wrote: post #34

> Data copied from devices during advanced searches at entry points into the U.S. gets saved for 15 years in a database searchable by thousands of CBP employees without a warrant. This is incredibly sketchy. As a non-American (Canadian), I think I’d probably just prefer to be refused entry to the US at that point.

Your country exchanges this information with the US, and the other five eyes countries. So it is even worse than just US CBP employees eyeing it.

Re: How to lock down your phone if you're traveling to the U.S.

#54

Post by tenacious_tuna »

hangonhn wrote: post #37
gruez wrote: post #4

"Locking down" is almost always a bad approach when it comes to border crossings. You have very little rights at the border, so keeping your phone locked and refusing to divulge the 20 characters password isn't really an option. Even without the threat of detaining you, they can refuse entry (if you're not a citizen/permanent resident), or seize your $1000 phone/laptop. Far better to wipe your phone and restore from…

Does anyone more knowledgable know if US citizen 5th amendment rights still applies at the border, i.e. I can't legally be compelled to unlock my phone at the US border? Law is not my area of expertise at all. (The article might have addressed this but it's behind a paywall.) Thanks in advance.

I am not a lawyer, though I am a US citizen.

First, it's the fourth amendment that protects against unreasonable search. Fifth amendment is protection against self-incrimination.

My understanding is that fourth amendment protections effectively do not apply at the border [1] because the border is inherently a reasonable place to search people.

In regards to being compelled to unlock your phone, CBP maintains the position [2] that in order to uphold their duties they're inherently able to compel you. Anecdotally, if you don't unlock your device, they may (a) confiscate it (and possibly apply all sorts of cracking tech to it), or (b) refuse you entry. That said, a random law firm [3] cites that you can withhold a password-based lock, but CBP can compel you to provide biometric unlocking [3].

To me, this is a case of https://xkcd.com/538/ ; you may have a legal basis to refuse, but in the current iteration of the administration I find it unlikely that it would be a positive experience if you were to stand on it. (Not that CBP is going to beat you with a pipe wrench, but if they want in your phone, they're gonna get in your phone.)

[1] https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/19-borde... [2] https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority/border-searc... [3] https://borderslawfirm.com/border-search-computers/

Re: How to lock down your phone if you're traveling to the U.S.

#55

Post by jeroenhd »

dijit wrote: post #49
xnx wrote: post #15

Isn't it better to factory reset a phone before entering the US and then restore a backup?

Anything stored in secure storage would also be wiped. Apple Pay cards and so forth, anything with 2FA codes, in Sweden we use "BankID" which is largely using a private key in secure storage and a pin to "sign" and "identify" people, you would be destroying those things in an unrecoverable way. Also, restoring a phone takes a seriously long time (8-10hrs?) and some things might not restore. Music you might have saved…

> Also, restoring a phone takes a seriously long time (8-10hrs?) and some things might not restore

2FA is a pain to recover, but it shouldn't that _that_ long to restore a backup unless you don't have decent internet access. All of my important data and apps usually take maybe 2 hours to get back (including flashing the OS), 3 if you include 2FA recovery.

Local backups is kind of an interesting risk/reward situation. My phone usually spends most of its time downloading apps from Google Play when recovering, the data recovery itself is very quick. Just backing up the APKs (which do not contain anything interesting) would probably cut down my backup recovery time to less than half an hour. Of course, my pictures and music are all stored in self-hosted cloud services, if you care to keep a local copy then things will take longer.

Re: How to lock down your phone if you're traveling to the U.S.

#56

Post by dijit »

jeroenhd wrote: post #55
dijit wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything stored in secure storage would also be wiped. Apple Pay cards and so forth, anything with 2FA codes, in Sweden we use "BankID" which is largely using a private key in secure storage and a pin to "sign" and "identify" people, you would be destroying those things in an unrecoverable way. Also, restoring a phone takes a seriously long time (8-10hrs?) and some things might not restore. Music you might have saved…

> Also, restoring a phone takes a seriously long time (8-10hrs?) and some things might not restore 2FA is a pain to recover, but it shouldn't that _that_ long to restore a backup unless you don't have decent internet access. All of my important data and apps usually take maybe 2 hours to get back (including flashing the OS), 3 if you include 2FA recovery. Local backups is kind of an interesting risk/reward situation.…

> but it shouldn't that _that_ long to restore a backup unless you don't have decent internet access.

1) We're talking about people who are most likely going to be using 4/5G and Hotel Wifi. The US anyway is far behind on bandwidth, I get symmetrical 1G for "free" in Sweden, last time I was in the US it was $60/mo for 60MBit.

2) Phones have as much as 1TiB of storage, even at the speed of storage that'll take a hot minute.

Getting the 2FA codes set up while not having access to those 2FA codes is going to be interesting.

Re: How to lock down your phone if you're traveling to the U.S.

#57

Post by BrandoElFollito »

Also known as "how to visit detention centers".

The amount of bad advice here is staggering. You are not James Bond or some kind of ninja Seals secret agent.

You are a nobody attempting to enter a country, and you will be pissing off the border police.

Have some common sense.

Re: How to lock down your phone if you're traveling to the U.S.

#58

Post by shepherdjerred »

gorgoiler wrote: post #41
gruez wrote: post #4

"Locking down" is almost always a bad approach when it comes to border crossings. You have very little rights at the border, so keeping your phone locked and refusing to divulge the 20 characters password isn't really an option. Even without the threat of detaining you, they can refuse entry (if you're not a citizen/permanent resident), or seize your $1000 phone/laptop. Far better to wipe your phone and restore from…

I used to do this but these days I’m petrified of the restore being imperfect in some way. I use the he.net app for TOTP. Will I get those back in working order? I have a billion photos I want to keep — were they properly backed up to iCloud? My mail settings are a pita to recreate. Will those come back? Are passwords stored in the Secure Enclave? Could I lose those? When I sign back into iCloud am I going to be able…

This is like sticking your head in the sand. Okay, maybe the backup is imperfect? What’s your plan if you phone is lost, damaged, or stolen?

Re: How to lock down your phone if you're traveling to the U.S.

#59

Post by IncandescentGas »

gorgoiler wrote: post #41
gruez wrote: post #4

"Locking down" is almost always a bad approach when it comes to border crossings. You have very little rights at the border, so keeping your phone locked and refusing to divulge the 20 characters password isn't really an option. Even without the threat of detaining you, they can refuse entry (if you're not a citizen/permanent resident), or seize your $1000 phone/laptop. Far better to wipe your phone and restore from…

I used to do this but these days I’m petrified of the restore being imperfect in some way. I use the he.net app for TOTP. Will I get those back in working order? I have a billion photos I want to keep — were they properly backed up to iCloud? My mail settings are a pita to recreate. Will those come back? Are passwords stored in the Secure Enclave? Could I lose those? When I sign back into iCloud am I going to be able…

Your phone could become damaged and inoperable every day. From dropping it in the toilet, being stolen, a house fire, etc. If you're "petrified" of losing your data, it's worth the work to ensure your data backup procedures are adequate.

Re: How to lock down your phone if you're traveling to the U.S.

#60

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

tenacious_tuna wrote: post #54
hangonhn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone more knowledgable know if US citizen 5th amendment rights still applies at the border, i.e. I can't legally be compelled to unlock my phone at the US border? Law is not my area of expertise at all. (The article might have addressed this but it's behind a paywall.) Thanks in advance.

I am not a lawyer, though I am a US citizen. First, it's the fourth amendment that protects against unreasonable search. Fifth amendment is protection against self-incrimination. My understanding is that fourth amendment protections effectively do not apply at the border [1] because the border is inherently a reasonable place to search people. In regards to being compelled to unlock your phone, CBP maintains the posi…

U got a semicolon at the end in the xkcd link
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