Live data from Hacker News

How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

twitter.com

51–60 of 1001 posts

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#51
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author’s point is that the lower cost of goods coming from Asia results in increased demand, which then generates more jobs in the post-manufacturing part of the chain.

That completely discounts the strategic value of self-sufficiency. I mean, why not outsource ALL manufacturing and agriculture if someone else can do it cheaper? Surely that wouldn't come back to bite us, right?

Explain the strategic value like I'm 5? I see people reference this idea all the time, but I'm unconvinced it's actually valuable enough to be worth it given all the other downsides. I don't actually believe it's a positive value proposition.

I see the argument for things of military significance. The common one is electronic components. But PCBs manufacturing is easy to spinup quickly. Which leave the critical components like IC where the ones we'd actually need are still exclusively overseas. The TSMC factory being built wont produce the newest generation chips.

Same for agriculture, if we're totally self sufficient, what happens when a blight takes out a staple crop or two? You can't just spin up food production or global food trade the way you can with manufacturing.

Meanwhile, having robust global trade is just a less lethal version of MAD, here being mutually assured economic destruction. It's much harder for other nations to turn on you when you both depend on each other for comfort, convience, or survival. Look at how the US is being seen by the international community. The reputation we had as a strong ally and worthwhile partner has been badly damaged. Why would other nations want to help us now? How are we stronger alone, instead of having their eager support?

There are two people, one grows all his own food, and makes all of the tools he needs. He doesn't need anybody. The other works with his neighbors, they share food, he kinda knows how to sharpen an ax, but he uses the ones made by the guy down the street, who's basically a professional blacksmith, even though he introduces himself as a gardener.

which one of those guys appears stronger? Who's more likely to survive something bad happening? who do you think is more likely to win in a fight? (yes their neighbors will come to help) which one would you rather be?

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#52
post #4

It’s like people excited about the new datacenter being built in their town, think of all the jobs that will bring they cry. Nobody realizes it takes 6 people to run a datacenter. Bringing “manufacturing back to the US” is a fool’s errand. The future of manufacturing is automation, not jobs.

> Bringing “manufacturing back to the US” is a fool’s errand. The future of manufacturing is automation, not jobs.

That’s probably correct. But the current trajectory means that China will have the robot-operated factories, not the US. What do you anticipate the US will do to obtain goods from those Chinese factories? Especially when AI stands poised to obsolete a lot of the white collar jobs where the US still retains a competitive edge?

You can’t treat the reserve dollar as something that will perpetually defy physics. The pound used to be the world’s reserve currency not too long ago. There’s no reason for the world to continue flocking to dollars when other economies surpass the US.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#53
post #5

All around the "developed world", the shop/retailer/supermarket/distribution part of the price of a product is around 50%. Whatever the product or its price. I'm wondering if part of our issue with crazy inflated prices despite low margin for industry and manufacturing actors is not because of this abused margin for retailers. That have also a huge power as it is difficult to negotiate when you depend on your product…

> I see the same pattern for movie theaters. They used to be independent mostly with affordable prices.

Movie theaters used to be extremely integrated with the movie studios. You had to go to a Paramount movie theater to see a Paramount movie. Antitrust laws broke that up until just recently Sony bought Alamo Drafthouse.

But that said, there's still a lot of different brands of movie theaters around me. On top of the normal Cinemark and AMC there's also Alamo Drafthouse, Studio Movie Grill, B&B, Angelika, and several other single-location theaters.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#54
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That completely discounts the strategic value of self-sufficiency. I mean, why not outsource ALL manufacturing and agriculture if someone else can do it cheaper? Surely that wouldn't come back to bite us, right?

Are cheap sneakers a strategic asset now?

Learning piano makes me better at music. Learning the violin is then easier.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#55
post #4

It’s like people excited about the new datacenter being built in their town, think of all the jobs that will bring they cry. Nobody realizes it takes 6 people to run a datacenter. Bringing “manufacturing back to the US” is a fool’s errand. The future of manufacturing is automation, not jobs.

i don't understand the obsession with jobs anyway people don't want a job, they want money and purpose most jobs barely deliver either

Can you propose something better that provides money and purpose?

Keep in mind that most people are unwilling and unable to sustainably maintain self-employment.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#56
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author’s point is that the lower cost of goods coming from Asia results in increased demand, which then generates more jobs in the post-manufacturing part of the chain.

That completely discounts the strategic value of self-sufficiency. I mean, why not outsource ALL manufacturing and agriculture if someone else can do it cheaper? Surely that wouldn't come back to bite us, right?

I know you're asking "why not outsource ALL manufacturing and agriculture if someone else can do it cheaper" in jest, or as a rhetorical device, but basically every single economist on earth will say "Yes, we should do that, that's a good thing"

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#58
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing that the bigger value is having the manufacturing on your home soil instead of depending on being in the good graces of China.

Forcing China to become more independent of exports to the US also means China will care less about being in the good graces of the US. It cuts both ways.

This outcome is probably the end result for either scenario. The degree to which China is dependent on the US has been steadily decreasing. There's no law of nature that says the US will keep winning and have its advantages forever.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#59
post #42

Americans need to get over their view of “Asia” as being about making shoes. When I was working in engineering in the early aughts, we mocked the Chinese as being able only to copy American technology. Today, China is competitive with or ahead of America in key technology areas, including nuclear power, AI, EVs, and batteries. We need to anticipate a future where China is equal to America on a per capita basis, but f…

Their population is declining, and they are a long way away from parity with the west on a per-capita basis. I think China missed their opportunity.

Also, the UK hasn't dominated finance for a century and has never been dominant in services, so it doesn't seem like an apt comparison.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#60
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That completely discounts the strategic value of self-sufficiency. I mean, why not outsource ALL manufacturing and agriculture if someone else can do it cheaper? Surely that wouldn't come back to bite us, right?

Domestic production that is perceived to benefit national sovereignty is protected. See: farming, energy, and defense spending/subsidies. There is no point in history where any nation, anywhere, has needed to be self-sufficient in the production of Nike Air Maxes. That being said, my sneakers, New Balance 990v6s, were made in the US-- probably Maine. They're $200. The shoes I typically wear for work, Red Wing Iron Ra…

> I don't know if increased volume will decrease the prices by much, they're only higher than premium imports by a little bit.

I don't think its reasonable to expect lower prices for domestic production at all, because the demand for domestic products is only going up (from people that used to buy Vietnamese Nikes).

Personally I think the whole tariff experiment is predictably going to fail, because "increased self sufficiency" does not buy you anything, and at some point people are just gonna push back politically if the cost increases get too bad.

Post reply on HN