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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

economist.com

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Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#701

Post by hwillis »

hammock wrote: post #517
xzjis wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only controversial in the USA I guess. Here in France we know for a fact that government-run services are better than privately owned ones.

Says the national from a country that’s had at least 12 different government orders in its time, more than any other G20. You really like government, you just can’t figure out what it ought to be or how to keep it.

As if Biden and Trump would not have been replaced at multiple points in their regimes, if the US had a mechanism for it? The trains kept running in France. Sounds like a system that is both more responsive and more stable.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#702

Post by irusensei »

shaky-carrousel wrote: post #602

> it gives the central bank a worrying amount of power Heh, only an American would say that. What a peculiar worldview.

I say that as a Brazilian. I have no idea why one would trust a central institution specially on corruption ridden Brazil.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#703

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

idiotsecant wrote: post #569
leonidasv wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much do you trust your government with your money? When you use Pix, your money is not in custody of the government. The money goes to/comes from a standard commercial bank, just like a wire transfer. What the government (Central Bank) does is just the infrastructure for moving money between bank accounts. The point about not being a global standard is valid, though. Although there are initiatives in progress t…

That doesn't particularly address the point. Say the government decides that they don't like the political party you're supporting, or maybe you've been doing something they consider morally unclean like gambling or consuming pg-13 media. Let's say the government decides that your payments can no longer use the payment infrastructure. Now imagine it's effectively the only practical payment method. It's a permissioned…

Then they can also decide you can't have a license to drive a car, that you can't fly, that you can't own a home, that you can't pass a background check, that you can't have a social security number, that you owe an exorbitant amount of tax, that you should be in jail, that your immigration status is revoked because you wrote a news article they don't let, etc etc etc

Your government already has a monopoly on violence and owns your whole life.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#704

Post by nonethewiser »

ilirium wrote: post #590
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Now, try to use Pix outside of Brazil - it's not even used in other Mercosur countries, what's the chance of having that adopted in other countries... And, that's problem #1. How much do you trust your government with your money? A system like Pix don't stand a chance to get a worldwide adoption - maybe people are naive but governments won't unify to adopt a common system cont…

You have bizarre logic here. For example, in a topic discussed about GPUs, someone would say that it's not possible to run databases on GPUs, so GPUs don't have any chance of succeeding. > How much do you trust your government with your money? Do you trust crypto companies? Mt. Gox, FTX, Bybit… Do you know that crypto companies must follow government rules, regulations, and laws? Russians were banned from using many…

> How much do you trust your government with your money? A system like Pix don't stand a chance to get a worldwide adoption

You mischaracterized that.

> You have bizarre logic here. For example, in a topic discussed about GPUs, someone would say that it's not possible to run databases on GPUs, so GPUs don't have any chance of succeeding.

He's saying it wont get adopted worldwide. Not that it wont succeed (which is a very ambiguous metric).

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#705

Post by owebmaster »

alephnerd wrote: post #508
vitorgrs wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. As soon as June, Brazilian pix will support "Automatic Pix". Which means, basically, Pix will support subscriptions. So let's say, you authorize Netflix with pix, and then every month they will charge you with Pix automatically. I find very likely Netflix or Amazon will be one of the first companies to support this in June now. This was made initially to replace old school automatic debit for phone/electricity/e…

Intruiging (in a great way). Do you have any recommendations of any Brazilian sources (Portuguese em Ingles) about the Brazilian and MERCOSUR FinTech and Public Tech industry? I'd love to dig even deeper, but my background is more NAM and Indo-Pac driven. I passed on NuBank eons ago and don't want to make the same mistake again. > Brazil, installments with credit cards are also super common... Basically when you put…

> Do you have any recommendations of any Brazilian sources (Portuguese em Ingles) about the Brazilian and MERCOSUR FinTech and Public Tech industry?

the best source I could find is this: https://finsidersbrasil.com.br/

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#706

Post by nonethewiser »

jowea wrote: post #265
auadix wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need a permanent residence, but to use PIX you have to get an ID called CPF. This is your IRS number, as you said, tax number. It's easy to get but it takes time, you can have one as national from different country.

This is true but the next step is a Brazilian bank account.

OK so it's firmly in the "not reasonable" territory for tourists. Just pay cash or credit card. Tourists aren't going to wait a while for a Brazilian tax id then use a Brazilian bank account before their trip. Just to select Pix as your payment method instead of card you already have in the Uber app.

This isnt a take down of Pix. Sounds excellent and should be replicated in other countries. Lets just not pretend its a viable solution for tourists.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#707

Post by yieldcrv »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #576
yieldcrv wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wise's unsupported business list is two pages long https://wise.com/us/acceptable-use-policy and the transaction size limits is also too low, for me (I think you can send multiple in quick succession though) to avoid random fintech platform and bank scrutiny for normal transactions and the higher scrutiny given to international transfers, I've used crypto for over a decade. For investment, to pay or be paid by vendor…

Where do you find crypto-native vendors?

In pretty much any active telegram group or discord for a crypto project

And if you start your own community, people come out of the woodwork early on or after any AMA session

Outside of that there are job boards and word of mouth

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#708

Post by hmmm-i-wonder »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #363
SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Now, try to use Pix outside of Brazil - it's not even used in other Mercosur countries, what's the chance of having that adopted in other countries... And, that's problem #1. How much do you trust your government with your money? A system like Pix don't stand a chance to get a worldwide adoption - maybe people are naive but governments won't unify to adopt a common system cont…

Canada has etransfer/interact which works well.

>How much do you trust your government with your money?

Well I'm in Canada, I would trust the govt and the banks with my money before I trust anyone else (yes yes, trucker protest bullshit still didn't shake my confidence)

Which is ultimately the problem. The govt and well regulated banks are the only ones you should be able to trust, but in many case you can't trust governments or their ability to regulate things.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#709

Post by extraduder_ire »

leonidasv wrote: post #551
xeromal wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds really cool. Is there a verification step where you confirm that the right number or identifier was entered for the first payment to someone? That's always one of my biggest concerns and I don't want to enter a number twice as the verification.

The UX is standardized by the Central Bank and they mandate a step showing the name of the person/company associated with that Pix key before you make the payment. So you can always double-check.

Does the format for the ID have a check digit in it? Like IBANs and credit card numbers can both be checked offline by an algorithm to tell you that you've made a typo.

From my reading, the system seems like it's intended to be used with a connected device and scanned/copypasted rather than typed or read over the phone.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#710

Post by extraduder_ire »

diggan wrote: post #23
m00dy wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Pix can't facilitate cross-border micro payments.

> Pix can't facilitate cross-border micro payments. No reason it couldn't. Bizum (mobile payments in Spain) started with just Spain but can now be used for payments across & to/from Spain, Italy, Portugal, and Andorra. Bizum is also a member of European Mobile Payment Systems Association which I think will eventually lead to all members being able to make transfers to other members, but that might a somewhat dream ra…

According to the wiki page for pix, Italy is in talks with Brazil to implement the exact same system.

Across the whole EU, there's already a pretty low limit on card transactions and a deadline of later this year for banks to implement SEPA instant transfers.

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