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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

economist.com

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Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#381

Post by matheusmoreira »

ks2048 wrote: post #377
matheusmoreira wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. > Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Yeah, if you enjoy having your money one hundred percent controlled by the brazilian government. I can't think of a more frightening proposition. You do realize this is the country that once suddenly confiscated everybody's money directly from their bank accounts, right? Why did they do that? Runaway inflation. Just like its…

If you're thinking worst-case scenarios - what about if the government simply puts you in a cell and beats you until you give them your crypto keys? The only hope for any system is if the people fight to not live within these kinds of fascist states. Crypto is not some magic solution - and has a lot of downsides which are mentioned often.

> what about if the government simply puts you in a cell and beats you until you give them your crypto keys?

The thought does occur to me. Quite frequently in fact.

My parents lived through the military dictatorship. They once asked me to stop posting online because they were afraid I'd become some kind of target. I'm not kidding.

> The only hope for any system is if the people fight to not live within these kinds of fascist systems.

Brazilians in general tend to agree with you. That's the end game of quite a lot of brazilians. "The only solution for this place is the airport", they say.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#382

Post by mndgs »

welshwelsh wrote: post #342
mixmastamyk wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The govt already has full access to your bank account! Always did and KYC ended privacy. Preventing convenient payment technology only hurts the rest of us. If you want redundancy buy gold coins.

We should focus on getting rid of KYC, instead of giving up on privacy and security.

Won't happen. Ever. Or concede to money laundering.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#383

Post by dyauspitr »

bestouff wrote: post #5

> Pix has spiced up Brazil’s fusty banking sector, but it gives the central bank a worrying amount of power I think a largely prefer a government-run payment system than an US company monopoly.

UPI from India is a much better system in my opinion since it’s decentralized and doesn’t give all the power to the central bank.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#384

Post by mndgs »

maleldil wrote: post #90
earnesti wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on the technicals? Is it a phone app? Does it work through QR codes or NFC? Is there a Pix "card"?

It's a protocol. You make payments through your bank app. You can make payments directly, basically a bank transfer, or through a QR code.

True that, ISO 20022 based.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#385

Post by leereeves »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #336
leereeves wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hate to see a system like that where I live, because the government will abuse it. We've already seen Canada freeze bank accounts of protestors, and US officials put protestors on the no fly list.

The govt already has full access to your bank account! Always did and KYC ended privacy. Preventing convenient payment technology only hurts the rest of us. If you want redundancy buy gold coins.

You're comparing Pix to bank transfers. I'm comparing Pix to cash.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#386

Post by mndgs »

m00dy wrote: post #37
diggan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pix can't facilitate cross-border micro payments. No reason it couldn't. Bizum (mobile payments in Spain) started with just Spain but can now be used for payments across & to/from Spain, Italy, Portugal, and Andorra. Bizum is also a member of European Mobile Payment Systems Association which I think will eventually lead to all members being able to make transfers to other members, but that might a somewhat dream ra…

there's a lot of reasons that it won't happen anytime soon. Those countries use euro as their main currency, also culturally and historically connected, which you can call them latins. Why don't you add Denmark to that group ? You can't because it will take ages :)

You can, just the central bank /regulator of that country needs to want it. Example: Sweden, which now transacts on SEPA, jointly with EUR currency.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#387

Post by mndgs »

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #341
voxleone wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Lucky you. I've been living here since i was born. :( Pix is surreal. It was launched in the Bolsonaro (mal)administration, designed by the proverbially incompetent public work force, and is as Orwellian as can be. Its code is nowhere to be found. The funniest thing is that is has been adopted feverishly by the rabid right wing crazies, the same lot who want to dest…

Correcting the blatant misinformation about the topic: - PIX project started in 2016, public launch in 2020 - It was not "launched" by any President; the Brazilian Central Bank is an independent authority, with it own mandate, not a branch of the executive power - PIX was co-developed with institutions of the financial sector - It's a protocol that participants must implement, not an app. The specification is even on…

It's based on ISO20022 messaging standard. Networking and security is typically custom in each country/standardized payment system.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#390

Post by [deleted] »

DanielHB wrote: post #111
trollbridge wrote: post #10

Standard workflow in Brazil: - You need to buy something from person XZ, whether an individual, small business, or huge business. - XZ sends you an invoice (including relevant taxes). - You pay the invoice. XZ knows you’ve paid. - At year end you can download all your invoices, including any taxes already paid, for doing your taxes. (Brazil taxes make American taxation look simple.) Standard workflow in America: - “D…

- At year end you can download all your invoices, including any taxes already paid, for doing your taxes. (Brazil taxes make American taxation look simple.) I disagree, although it is VERY complex the US system is much worse. At least the Brazillian one you don't need to pay for an application (TurboTax & similars) to file your taxes.

[deleted]
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