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Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

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Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#151

Post by nradov »

devwastaken wrote: post #147
Aurornis wrote: post #2

Truly sorry you feel this way. For what it’s worth, this was common for people graduating into the 2008 financial crisis, too. It’s actually unusual that we went for so long without another period of contraction. From last time around: The people who kept pushing and took any job, anywhere turned out okay. This translated to a lot of people taking jobs below what they expected to get or having to move when they didn’…

its different this time. the work isnt coming back because the market is now saturated by an oligopoly. IP law and anti competitive practices have effectively stopped upstarts. thats why old tech corps like IBM, Oracle gave trump money and align with their politics.

There are as many startups now as ever before. It's probably pointless to compete directly against an established company in a mature market like relational databases but there is unlimited opportunity for new stuff.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#152

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

taurath wrote: post #136
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From last time around: The people who kept pushing and took any job, anywhere turned out okay. This translated to a lot of people taking jobs below what they expected to get or having to move when they didn’t want to, but it was ultimately temporary. I'm going to challenge this as you didn't give specific data to back it up. I read an article recently that did have data, and it made the argument that first jobs, an…

The stats bear this out, but you can usually pivot to something better, especially if you have the skillset and drive to continuously up your skillset and find parts of industry that are in demand. It’s the companies where you learn nothing where you stagnate. I doubt there’ll be a shortage of ML jobs in the next few years, unless somehow the AI industry completely collapses somehow.

This makes a lot of sense to me. The stats basically say that "if you start out underemployed, you stay underemployed for a long time", but my guess is the causation isn't necessarily as it's implied (or, indeed, as I implied it in my first comment).

That is, I think it's likely that a lot of people who start out unemployed are just comparatively less motivated, less aggressive, "go-with-the-flow"-type people. These folks do better when the market is good and worse when it's bad. But, as you put it, someone with a lot of drive and the skillset is not necessarily doomed to be held back for years if their first job sucks, as long as they set their sights on getting ahead quickly and don't let their stagnant environment rub off on them.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#153

Post by billy99k »

gedy wrote: post #61
carabiner wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it was that bad. I graduated 12/2008 in aerospace engineering from a big state school. Not MIT. We all had at least 1 offer from big companies, even the middling students. I had 2 offers, and probably could have swung a third. It felt like the recession mostly affected the housing market and older career folks, but for us new grads things were mostly normal. This feels like a permanent shift due to AI i…

2008 wasn't that bad for tech, but 2001 was and might be better comparison.

Yeah, I agree with you here. Most of the people I know in tech got laid off in 2001 due to startups failing. I think the only person I knew that made it through worked for Yahoo.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#154

Post by nosmokewhereiam »

FilosofumRex wrote: post #128
nosmokewhereiam wrote: post #32

Service industry (waiting tables is my go to) doesn't pay well but it does pay... I worked at Stinkies Fish Camp as a dishwasher fwiw after my 6 years as a Cyber Threat Operator in the AF (2012 government sequestration did wonders to clearance renewals). It sucked, but I lived. Well, survived. Best of luck, always keep a candle of hope to a wildcard interview!

lol, you sound like honest & decent fellow, assuming everyone else is like you - but you've no clue who you're advising.

Ditto

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#155

Post by billy99k »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #135
revskill wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kept hearing about 2008 crisis. It is overrated. Just a market up and down ?

It was probably the worst economic crisis of the last fifty years. It went on forever, particularly in Europe and the UK (mostly because of a bunch of bone-headed moves by politicians). Even the US basically didn't get back to where it was pre-2008 till 2019. Tech was fine because mobile was happening, but it was incredibly grim everywhere else.

"Even the US basically didn't get back to where it was pre-2008 till 2019."

Hard disagree. Things went back to almost normal around 2013. Lots of money going around, new startups, and plenty of jobs.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#156

Post by cashsterling »

I graduated in ChemE in southern California in 1999 when there was a major downturn in the job market. One or two big chemical engineering design firms closed their SoCal offices flooding the market with qualified chemE's, aerospace companies were consolidating, etc.

Some of my school colleagues got good jobs at refineries and whatnot... but they were the fortunate ones. It took me 12 months to land my first "I made it" engineering job with a good salary. In the interim, I worked hourly jobs making between 13-18 USD an hour.

Don't let the current job market deflate you. You are young, intelligent, and you have a degree from MIT... you are going to be fine.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#157

Post by fatnoah »

laidoffamazon wrote: post #48
qazxcvbnmlp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 to this. If I go look at social media the job market is ending. But if I look at the signals around me there's plenty of opportunities. Also consider taking something below (or even much below) expectations. It's much easier to work your way up with connections than it is to get in the door with no references.

MIT students expect (not unfairly) to work at Jane Street/HRT/Jump/Citadel Securities/OpenAI/Anthropic and then "settle" for Google or Facebook. They're not going to work for Fidelity or Raytheon.

As an MIT reject (technically waitlisted), my very first post-graduation job was at Raytheon and much later in life, I ended up at Facebook, where I managed a team that had several engineers that joined directly from MIT. While I can't speak to the entire MIT grad cohort, fFacebook was the first-choice for everyone in this particular group.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#158

Post by danhodgins »

Start going to tradeshows for every possible industry you can think of, and bring resumes.

People who network in person almost always have an advantage compared to people with similar qualifications who sit at home and send out resumes.

You are guaranteed to make more connections if you speak to people at the booths. If you take a genuine curiosity in what they do there's usually something interesting to talk about.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#159

Post by hotelsinger »

That sounds bleak. If I were in your shoes I'd probably join the military. I'm thinking Air Force. They can use people with advanced technical skills. Plus, you get a bed, food, and a job. Regarding family (Spouse, Kids) there are financial benefits, cheaper housing, the ability to live and shop on base, etc. If it were me, I'd choose that over going back to to the environment you described.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#160

Post by atrettel »

Rooster61 wrote: post #8

It's hard to face this when fresh out of school, but one piece of advice I can offer is to network as much as you can. Talk to folks you know that graduated before you and have a job. Talk to professors who might have industry ties in their history. Talk to folks in the career center. Try to be as visible as you can. Yes, I know that seems trivial considering you don't have job experience, but even building relations…

I second networking as the thing to do in this job market.

The vast majority of the recent interviews that I have gotten have been through networking. Sometimes just asking the right people works, but obviously you have to know who to ask, when to ask it, and how to ask it to make it work. There are also more passive methods like the HN monthly job threads, but you should do active networking as your primary networking method in this job market.

Even if I apply via a job board to positions that I am supremely qualified for, there is a good chance I'll be auto-rejected within a day. It has happened multiple times to me and I shrug it off at this point.

I know networking is hard, especially when you are just starting out, but I just wanted to write a post saying that it does work if you stick to it.

(That said, I would also prepare to be unemployed for an extended period. Even if you are actively interviewing, it can take months to get a job offer. For my current position, it took 5 months to get an offer and I started 4 months later due to a housing storage where the job was located.)

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