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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

economist.com

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Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#291

Post by whimsicalism »

chneu wrote: post #219
palmotea wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm thinking, maybe controversially, centralized national payment service like this should be government-run based on my experience with Alipay which is a digital payment service in China. After dealing with many private sector services, I think a lot of things should be government run. For instance: weather apps. Private sector ones are just a vector to track and sell your location data, and they rely on governmen…

That's exactly why NOAA in the US is under attack. Conservatives see $$$ potential if they privatize it.

i think it more has to do with wanting to cut the deficit in preparation for tax cut extension + NOAA and other science agencies are politically vulnerable in a way that medicare/ss are not

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#292

Post by graemep »

Y_Y wrote: post #188
graemep wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that you can't use Pix in the US has no bearing. The comment I replied to was claiming Bizum operating "cross border" showed that Pix could do so, so it is very much relevant in context. It is a very special case of cross border. It is technically cross border but does not have the difficulties of cross border in all of the rest of the world outside the EU. In any case it is arguable whether these are sepa…

The United Nations has a flag and anthem too. The umbrella interoperability initiative that includes Bizum is Swiss (neither EU nor Eurozone). Maybe you have a radical viewpoint, or maybe you're just unfamiliar with the subject matter, but individual EU countries are very much separate entities, notwithstanding many helpful treaties. There are lots of transnational entities like the EU and monetary unions like the Eu…

> The umbrella interoperability initiative that includes Bizum is Swiss (neither EU nor Eurozone).

and yet Switzerland is not one of the countries where Bizum can be used?

The UN does not have a common currency or a parliament etc.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#293

Post by whimsicalism »

TrackerFF wrote: post #89
bestouff wrote: post #5

> Pix has spiced up Brazil’s fusty banking sector, but it gives the central bank a worrying amount of power I think a largely prefer a government-run payment system than an US company monopoly.

I don't think it is a realistic option in the US, at least in the current climate. There are so many powerful and influential anti/small-government that are rabidly opposing anything made by the government, and offered to the people. The argument is always the same: - "It will stifle innovation" - "It is unfair to business" - "It will make people dependent on the government" - "It will give government more access to…

i wish i was not sympathetic to those arguments - and i used to not be, but then i actually worked in the federal government. perhaps local governments can efficiently provision services but the feds are handicapped in so many different ways it would be quite challenging to untangle.

realistically, the workforce that was hired around sorting through hundreds of thousands of bureaucratic paper documents in the 70s/80s is not the same workforce that can really build new products and the feds are mostly the former.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#294

Post by littlestymaar »

DeathArrow wrote: post #135
TrackerFF wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is a realistic option in the US, at least in the current climate. There are so many powerful and influential anti/small-government that are rabidly opposing anything made by the government, and offered to the people. The argument is always the same: - "It will stifle innovation" - "It is unfair to business" - "It will make people dependent on the government" - "It will give government more access to…

>For decades the American people have been told that anything the government touches will be expensive, inefficient, and lead to a more taxes. Private sector knows best, and all that. Do you have some counter arguments?

Any european who happened to have become sick once in the US can tell you about that if you will.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#295

Post by walthamstow »

DeathArrow wrote: post #135
TrackerFF wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is a realistic option in the US, at least in the current climate. There are so many powerful and influential anti/small-government that are rabidly opposing anything made by the government, and offered to the people. The argument is always the same: - "It will stifle innovation" - "It is unfair to business" - "It will make people dependent on the government" - "It will give government more access to…

>For decades the American people have been told that anything the government touches will be expensive, inefficient, and lead to a more taxes. Private sector knows best, and all that. Do you have some counter arguments?

Silicon Valley

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#296

Post by djrj477dhsnv »

lucasoshiro wrote: post #274
djrj477dhsnv wrote: post #255

How do people pay for illicit drugs, prostitution, bribes, etc.?

This post is about how Brazil created a universal payment technology that most richer countries don't even dream to have. And a technology that works, is free, easy to use, and become part of reality of country that, despite having several tech companies, isn't exactly recognized (yet) as big player in the tech scenario. And you keep repeating these old-fashioned stereotypes?

Huh? What stereotype? It was an honest question that I haven't heard a good answer for how black market payments will work as societies go cashless.

In the US, it seems that 3rd party systems like Venmo are lightly monitored when it comes to payments for minor crimes. But I imagine that would change when there is a single government controlled payment system with total transparency.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#297

Post by Vox_Leone »

lucasoshiro wrote: post #259
voxleone wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Lucky you. I've been living here since i was born. :( Pix is surreal. It was launched in the Bolsonaro (mal)administration, designed by the proverbially incompetent public work force, and is as Orwellian as can be. Its code is nowhere to be found. The funniest thing is that is has been adopted feverishly by the rabid right wing crazies, the same lot who want to dest…

Bolsonaro didn't even know what Pix was: https://exame.com/economia/questionado-por-apoiador-bolsonar...

But i have said nothing about Bolsonaro's lack of awareness -- his monumental ignorance is a known fact, mind you, and that is not the core of my argument.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#299

Post by strobe »

NicuCalcea wrote: post #106
DeathArrow wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. They protect against tracking and provide anonimity. That might be valuable.

It might be valuable for a minority of people, but it is an active detriment for most. I want to know where my money is going, and I want my bank to be able to get it back in case of theft or fraud.

at same time you don't wanna to ask bank for permission to spend your money every time:

"Can I buy some milk today? No!, let's visit our branch first and give some papers which will require significant time/effort to get for you."

Most just not experiencing things like this but once that happen it is hard to ignore this possibility.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#300

Post by hocuspocus »

runeks wrote: post #86
losthobbies wrote: post #34

I wonder will the SEPA instant work like this.

Yes, I believe that is the goal: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/integration/retail/instant_pa... But I think adoption is slow because everyone in the EU already has credit cards and fees are not paid by consumers.

Fees are always paid by consumers in one way or another...

That said the EEA capped interchange with the explicit goal of making these fees painless to business owners, i.e. similar to the actual cost of handling cash, and we have PSPs charging as little as 0.5~0.7%.

While adoption is indeed slower than in developing countries since people are used to card payments (rather debit than credit by the way), the popularity of mobile wallets such as Swish, Vipps, BLIK, ... is actually pretty significant in a good number of countries, and at the same time, an increasing portion of the population uses Apple/Google/Samsung/... Pay and doesn't care about the physical card anymore. Given that the EU has forced Apple to open up its NFC payment feature, we can perfectly imagine a pan-European federated payment scheme take off in the near future, using EPI/Wero in the Eurozone and interoperable local players outside.

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