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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

economist.com

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Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#241

Post by lucasoshiro »

bberrry wrote: post #168
SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

Have you had any significant issues with scams? In my home country we have a huge problem of scammers calling and tricking elderly people to transfer their savings with a similar instant payment app.

We have scams just like any other place and technology. I don't think that Pix made it easier.

btw, Pix is not an app, it is a service/infrastructure that can be used by any bank

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#242

Post by marcosdumay »

DanielHB wrote: post #198
xinayder wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the difference in Brazil. Because it's ran by the Central Bank, there are some fraud protections. For example, if you receive money by mistake, you have the option to return a transfer to the original sender. And if you don't do that almost immediately, the sender can actually sue you and get the bank to revert the transaction (once proven you've deliberately chosen to not return the money). There are also ot…

It is still not the same as credit cards, credit card fraud protection doesn't require any sort of legal process. Also these kind of limits can also be put on credit (and debit) cards.

> credit card fraud protection doesn't require any sort of legal process

Credit card fraud protection uses a private-only legal process. What is the worst kind of legal process.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#243

Post by nguyenkien »

alephnerd wrote: post #165
notpushkin wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a Russian tourist in Vietnam can use Mir If you can find a place that actually accepts it! It’s certainly not as ubiquitous as the local Napas247 QR codes.

Yep! And Napas247 was co-developed by Vietnam and South Korea (edit: Only VN - confused Shinhan's support for development work)! The point is there is a steady decoupling towards non-Visa/MC payment systems outside the US and EU, and it wouldn't be too surprising if a number of these systems begin supporting inter-operability within the next 10 years.

Sorry, I can't find anywhere mention it co-develop with South Korea. Can you give source to this?

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#244

Post by catsma21 »

dormento wrote: post #109
earnesti wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on the technicals? Is it a phone app? Does it work through QR codes or NFC? Is there a Pix "card"?

Brazilian here. - no card - technically not a specific app, its a payment method that any app with a checkout flow (for example) can chose to implement. - you register some id with your financial institution of choice (any of CPF - equivalent to SSN, CNPJ - for businesses, phone number, email or a randomly generated key). - keys are fully portable, as in you can revoke em or change the bank institution they're associ…

> its a bank transfer

why can't we just use qr codes with ibans in that case?

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#245

Post by jowea »

guax wrote: post #201
Galatians4_16 wrote: post #125

Despite a global move towards a cashless society, 54% of Brazilians now opt for cash withdrawals.¹ 2024 has seen a surprising reversal, as cash usage makes an unexpected comeback , defying predictions that the world was moving toward a cashless society. With rising cybersecurity threats, concerns over financial privacy, and economic instability, consumers and businesses are increasingly turning back to physical curre…

I believe it's more related to economic crisis and informal work (tax evasion). Brazil is very cashless for normal transactions.

Yeah there was a big thing where the government announced some new rules relating to reporting transactions to the local IRS equivalent. I believe that's the main reason for the fall in Pix usage.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#246

Post by moefh »

DanielHB wrote: post #108
koyote wrote: post #67

So this sounds just like PayID in Australia or what was payM in the UK (which got shut down a couple of years ago due to lack of use), minus the QR code generation part. It's used between private people to make it easier to send money to one another without having to type in bank account details, but never really used to pay businesses (except under the table). How come this is so popular in Brasil for paying busines…

Brazil has massive amounts of fraud so credit cards are very inconvenient, card cloning and websites leaking credit card numbers is a huge problem. Banks are super aggressive about blocking cards if they see suspicious transactions. Tap and pay is popular in Brazil as well, but only for physical transactions. For online small purchases PIX is definitely the best option. PIX (and similar systems like Sweden's Swish/Ba…

> once you send the money it is gone with no contest possible

That's not true; PIX requires your bank to provide a way (called "MED"[1]) for you to request a reversal up to 80 (!) days after a transaction. It can only be used in case of fraud, and it may take up to 7 days for the bank to analyze the situation and deny/allow your request. If it's allowed, you'll get the money back in up to 4 days.

If the bank denies the request (i.e., if they conclude there was no fraud) you can always sue the transaction recipient; you'll have access to all necessary information since they must be registered with some financial institution to be able to receive a PIX transaction.

So it's not as easy as a credit card, but I think it's fair for a free payment service.

[1] in Portuguese: https://www.bcb.gov.br/meubc/faqs/p/o-que-e-e-como-funciona-...

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#248

Post by maeln »

carlosjobim wrote: post #180
forty wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it much more worrying than having Visa being able to do that? Especially when you see how the US is going downhill, I think it'd rather take the risk of having to deal with hypothetical local fascist state.

> Is it much more worrying than having Visa being able to do that? Yes, of course it is. How could anybody think otherwise? What is the worst thing Visa can do and what is the worst thing Visa has done? What is the worst thing the government can do and what is the worst thing the government has done?

Visa has to respect whatever laws apply in the country they operate in. So if the police want Visa info on whoever, provided that a legal framework cover this issue, Visa has to give it. It makes 0 difference if the payment system is government-operated or not. In any democratic country, the police would need the approval of a judge whether the service is public or a private company. And in dictatorship, the government will get the data or ban you from doing business in the country anyway.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#249

Post by owebmaster »

weinzierl wrote: post #103
SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

Is there any way to use Pix as a tourist without Brazilian tax number or permanent residence. Technically a pre-paid option should be possible, but I could not find anything about something in that vein.

I think remitly works

https://blog.remitly.com/money-transfer/complete-guide-brazi...

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#250

Post by freeone3000 »

earnesti wrote: post #75
pjc50 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And quite a lot of Western ones like Vipps. And see this long list: https://truelayer.com/reports/alternative-payments/european-... > require ID, zero privacy, usually government sanctioned Unfortunately systems that don't have those requirements are going to be money laundering channels. I wish it wasn't such a big concern but it's unavoidable.

>> require ID, zero privacy, usually government sanctioned > Unfortunately systems that don't have those requirements are going to be money laundering channels. I wish it wasn't such a big concern but it's unavoidable. There same requirements also make the likelihood of these systems scaling beyong one jurisdiction very unlikely. Tourists don't want to set up a payment account for every country they visit. Or other w…

A state of mutual trust can be established, similar to driver’s licenses and passports: country A trusts you, they did all the legwork, we certify their endorsement, you’re fine. It won’t necessarily be possible between all pairs, but, SEPA and Interac should be theoretically interoperable; dozens of other friendly-country pairs can be thought of.
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