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India's repair culture gives new life to dead laptops

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Re: India's repair culture gives new life to dead laptops

#41

Post by perryizgr8 »

ryandrake wrote: post #21
blackoil wrote: post #13

It's simple, the labour cost for repair is lower than the replacement cost, we also have people scavenging for valuables in landfills. As/When India will become rich enough, this will become uneconomical. Long term solution is to force companies to build products with repairability in mind.

Companies should have to bear the full cost of cleaning up, repairing, or disposing the products they unleash upon the world. If I have to throw away my laptop because it broke, Lenovo should pay the cost of disposing (or repairing) it and bringing the environment back to the condition it was in before the product existed. When my car dies, Toyota should have to tow it away, part it out and reuse what it can. We've s…

> Companies should have to bear the full cost of cleaning up

So the end users, got it.

Re: India's repair culture gives new life to dead laptops

#42

Post by Brajeshwar »

I have a friend who runs a devices (mostly Laptops and Phones) rental business. Repairs are a key component in their business model. They have a well-established setup powered by processes automated by technology. He is a programmer, who bootstrapped his business into a successful enterprise today.

If you are in India (or more specifically Bangalore), check out his team https://spurge.rentals

I remember advising him to protect his domains with a .com while using an interesting but .com domain.

Re: India's repair culture gives new life to dead laptops

#43

Post by fakedang »

magicalhippo wrote: post #30
sidkshatriya wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fair and valid view of looking at things. Though the trick is to not get too heavy handed. At what point does regulation become too stifling ? The American way is to possibly put too few responsibilities on manufacturers. The European way seems to be to saddle them with just too many regulations -- possibly killing so much innovation. One way to approach this would be to put more responsibilities on large e…

Here in Norway, electrical and electronic (EE) goods are taxed extra and that money goes to recycling and cleanup[1]. Importers and producers are required to be a member of a approved company handling returns, like RENAS[2]. Shops selling EE goods are required to accept returned EE goods from individuals of the type they sell. So if you sell fridges you have to take my old fridge and handle it in accordance with the…

> The American way is to possibly put too few responsibilities on manufacturers. The European way seems to be to saddle them with just too many regulations -- possibly killing so much innovation

Well that's what the European way is lol. Tax and regulate instead of focusing on the crux of the problem, which is overproduction and planned obsolescence. Any solution that uses taxes and extra charges will simply pass the costs onto the consumer.

I like the idea of putting the onus on companies to get rid of the product, but there should be a consumer onus too. Consumers should be discouraged from tossing everything to the landfill, and companies should be forced to collect the stuff they product after the lifecycle is complete. This might even drive the companies to revise their designs to use more recyclable materials.

Re: India's repair culture gives new life to dead laptops

#44

Post by DeathArrow »

I grew up in a poor Eastern European country which is not as poor anymore.

We repaired anything: worn out shoes, distressed socks and clothes. Even cooking pots were patched when they developed holes. Everything had very long lifetimes and those lifetimes were extended with periodic repairs.

Cars were rare and using parts of low quality made the break often. People repaired their cars in front of their houses or apartment buildings. Or on the side of the road if it broke there. Everyone carried big toolkits in their trunks and and almost any car owner or driver knew how to fix the car. If a tire ran flat, they had the tools to fix it on spot.

There were electronic repair shops everywhere. There were also other kind of repair shops.

If someone looked in the trash cans at the time, most of it was vegetable waste resulting from people cooking their meals.

It wasn't unusual to own a 30 years old car, a 20 years washing machine, a 30 year radio or a 15 year black and white TV, all being repaired lots of times.

Some mass market goods, or most of them, were handed down to the next generation as priced possessions.

Now, we repair next to nothing. We still repair cars, although many people sell their old car if it breaks and buy a new one.

PC, TV, washing machines, fridges, furniture get replaced in a few years even if it's in perfectly good condition.

Good got cheaper, although of uncertain quality and the wages got high so it's expensive to repair something even if you find a place to do it. If you buy a new bicycle and go to the repair shop two or three times it will cost you the price of a new one.

I am not nostalgic about it, and I don't think people should stick with old junk. But I do believe we need an equilibrium, goods should be of higher quality, easier and cheaper to repair. I dislike being forced to throw something away because it can't be repaired, even if such a repair should be simple and cheap in theory.

We pay less for good and we don't spend for the wages of repair technicians (almost none left) but since the goods are of low quality, have planned obsolescence built in and can't be repaired, we end up buying the same good two or three times so we spend more. While that might create jobs in China or other remote country, I as a consumer, care more about my budget and my quality of life.

Re: India's repair culture gives new life to dead laptops

#45

Post by robocat »

magicalhippo wrote: post #30
sidkshatriya wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fair and valid view of looking at things. Though the trick is to not get too heavy handed. At what point does regulation become too stifling ? The American way is to possibly put too few responsibilities on manufacturers. The European way seems to be to saddle them with just too many regulations -- possibly killing so much innovation. One way to approach this would be to put more responsibilities on large e…

Here in Norway, electrical and electronic (EE) goods are taxed extra and that money goes to recycling and cleanup[1]. Importers and producers are required to be a member of a approved company handling returns, like RENAS[2]. Shops selling EE goods are required to accept returned EE goods from individuals of the type they sell. So if you sell fridges you have to take my old fridge and handle it in accordance with the…

> there's money to be made by skipping steps, and some do

You must be joking.

"Fifteen major car manufacturers have been fined almost €600 million by the European Commission and the British government after Mercedes-Benz blew the whistle on a cartel that fixed car recycling costs and processes." https://www.dw.com/en/eu-and-uk-fine-carmakers-millions-over...

Re: India's repair culture gives new life to dead laptops

#46

Post by rockyj »

I spent many a weekends at Nehru Place, even though it was a 90 mins drive and the parking ... oh the parking, well if you want to test your patience this is this is the place to go.

But for a hardware / gaming junkie this was the place to be. Not to mention (pirated / photocopied) books. Almost any book / media you could dream of. The lanes are buzzing with scamsters / pirates and geniuses who can build / repair anything - phones, TVs, PCs, laptops, watches etc. At one time Nehru Place was the "IT" hub of New Delhi. The street food was not half bad as well. I was just happy watching the men at work in dinky shops fixing anything, built a few PCs there (a tradition which continues to this day).

Some happy memories (but you have to be careful or you will need to walk back home without your wallet and your shirt).

Edit: 2 movies to understand this culture (a bit more) -

- Rocket Singh (salesman of the year)

- Mickey Virus

Re: India's repair culture gives new life to dead laptops

#47

Post by sidkshatriya »

magicalhippo wrote: post #30
sidkshatriya wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fair and valid view of looking at things. Though the trick is to not get too heavy handed. At what point does regulation become too stifling ? The American way is to possibly put too few responsibilities on manufacturers. The European way seems to be to saddle them with just too many regulations -- possibly killing so much innovation. One way to approach this would be to put more responsibilities on large e…

Here in Norway, electrical and electronic (EE) goods are taxed extra and that money goes to recycling and cleanup[1]. Importers and producers are required to be a member of a approved company handling returns, like RENAS[2]. Shops selling EE goods are required to accept returned EE goods from individuals of the type they sell. So if you sell fridges you have to take my old fridge and handle it in accordance with the…

This is a good design. The company that manufactures the product does not need to be necessarily responsible for the cleanup. The cleanup is done by another company and the costs are added on customer checkout. But this is open to abuse as you mentioned -- some companies may take short cuts or the cleanup companies may become an oligopoly and charge unreasonable prices that add a lot of cost to the products.

Also, what happens if you order a product online from another company in a different country ? Does Norway still get to add tax for cleanup on these imported goods ? I would guess that this would be a powerful incentive for customers to skirt these regulations for lower prices.

Re: India's repair culture gives new life to dead laptops

#49

Post by trinix912 »

throw828288 wrote: post #40
midnightclubbed wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you are making a flippant and pointless comment, but I’m compelled to respond. Of all the laptops I’ve owned my 2020 MacBook Air is still my personal daily driver, my 2010 Mac mini still works fine for running my 3d printer, my 2014 Mac mini works great for crafting and my 2020 iPhone SE2 is still getting OS updates and is sending this message. Are they repairable? Not easily. Do they still work, absolutely. H…

[flagged]

> It may even have more than 8GB of ram

I have two 2013 MacBooks - an Air with 8GB of RAM and a Pro with 16GB. I use them daily. Both work way smoother (with outdated software even) than my friends' few years old Windows 11 laptops. You'd be surprised how much you can get done on that 8GB when the OS isn't using half of it for the News Sidebar Webview and Windows Update/Telemetry services.

Also, the keyboards are both fully functional -- that is, after 12 years of daily coding on them. I didn't buy extended warranty, and the laptops have survived some wild stuff. Where I do agree with you is that the newer ones seem to be of worse build quality. But overall? Pretty damn decent devices.

Re: India's repair culture gives new life to dead laptops

#50

Post by sidkshatriya »

fakedang wrote: post #43
magicalhippo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Norway, electrical and electronic (EE) goods are taxed extra and that money goes to recycling and cleanup[1]. Importers and producers are required to be a member of a approved company handling returns, like RENAS[2]. Shops selling EE goods are required to accept returned EE goods from individuals of the type they sell. So if you sell fridges you have to take my old fridge and handle it in accordance with the…

> The American way is to possibly put too few responsibilities on manufacturers. The European way seems to be to saddle them with just too many regulations -- possibly killing so much innovation Well that's what the European way is lol. Tax and regulate instead of focusing on the crux of the problem, which is overproduction and planned obsolescence. Any solution that uses taxes and extra charges will simply pass the…

A good way to penalize planned obsolescence would be to charge a decreasing penalty if the goods are recycled/disposed earlier. So if I return the fridge for recycling after a couple of years (bad fridge) then the company gets charged automatically 5% of the fridge cost. If I recycle after 10 years then the company gets charged zero (as an example).

Maybe instead of a charge this could be a credit. If the recycling happens after a long time the company gets a bigger payback than if it happens before. The money is collected on checkout so the company can't claim bankruptcy or low profits to make the payment.

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