Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A university president makes a case against cowardice

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

911–920 of 934 posts

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#911

Post by bobthepanda »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #904
jart wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% of the US workforce these days is white collar, and it's one of the great illusions of our time. Most of these jobs only exist to keep busy the 60% of the US workforce that has a degree. In the 1940's about 30% of the US workforce was white collar and only 5% had degrees. What caused this change? It's probably because blue collar workers made so much money and had so much leverage that businesses shipped all thei…

One of the reasons white collar is desirable is the physical toll that work over a lifetime can take on a persons body. So, in one sense, it could be perceived as a better deal. Whether it actually is or not is another thing. Chinese industry is not known for caring overly much about the long term effects on the bodies of their workers. They have more. And yes, I find it scary to think of what the world is competing…

It is until it is not.

Chinese working hours are mostly long to balance out low productivity. This worked for Japan until it did not; Japanese growth stalled until Japanese workers were poorer than Taiwanese or South Koreans by some measures. And China is racing fastest towards demographic collapse, particularly in its largest, most productive cities by. People 60 and older make up 37% of the population in Shanghai, and there the TFR is 0.6.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#912

Post by jart »

eszed wrote: post #908
jart wrote: post #906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I believe in collective giving, not collective taking. I live my life palms down, not palms up.

Difference in perspective, man. I practice "collective giving" by donating money and time to help those less blessed than I have been, and by voting for measures I believe will strengthen society, even if they're against to my (narrowly defined) economic self-interest. We're all part of the collective, and owe each other that.

I disagree with everything you just said. It's like you have the complete opposite morality as me.

I think there are more valuable things you can give people than money. I like to enrich others by writing open source code and blogging about it. It's scalable. It doesn't make me poorer. It provides others with entertainment, useful tools, and most importantly knowledge.

Giving money to the desperate offers a bad return on investment for society. Money is better given to people who are having the most impact enriching society.

Voting is about as impactful as praying.

Every altruistic person has a responsibility to look after their self-interests first. Since if you're not strong and healthy, then you won't be capable of giving to others.

Finally, you don't owe anyone anything. The moment people expect you to give, it stops being a gift.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#913

Post by sequoia »

xvokcarts wrote: post #873
sequoia wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to threats to pull hundreds of thousands of dollars of funding if certain demands aren't met. But yes, there are also plenty of rhetorical attacks.

Isn't that how funding works? We give you money, you meet demands. How is that an attack?

Yeah fair enough. I agree Trump was elected democratically and he's acting on behalf of "the people" when he threatens to pull funding. Perhaps attack was the wrong word.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#914

Post by stale2002 »

immibis wrote: post #909
stale2002 wrote: post #901

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this stuff goes hand in hand. If you are getting a "social media frenzy going", to get someone fired, you are also response for when that social media targets someone's friends and family with stalking, harassment, and death threats. You cannot pick and chose the consequences of your social media frenzy. It all happens at once, and you don't control the mob. And you are at fault for all of the consequences of…

The topic was someone telling your employer about something bad that you did.

Through the process of " getting a social media frenzy going".

Regardless of your motivation, when you gather up a social media frenzy, you can't control the mob. It just ends with everyone being harassed en mass by the mob.

And you are still responsible for the consequences of that internet hate mob, if you use it.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#915

Post by eszed »

jart wrote: post #912
eszed wrote: post #908

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difference in perspective, man. I practice "collective giving" by donating money and time to help those less blessed than I have been, and by voting for measures I believe will strengthen society, even if they're against to my (narrowly defined) economic self-interest. We're all part of the collective, and owe each other that.

I disagree with everything you just said. It's like you have the complete opposite morality as me. I think there are more valuable things you can give people than money. I like to enrich others by writing open source code and blogging about it. It's scalable. It doesn't make me poorer. It provides others with entertainment, useful tools, and most importantly knowledge. Giving money to the desperate offers a bad retur…

> I think there are more valuable things you can give people than money.

I do agree with you about that. In the context of labor law (where this discussion started), the most important - a 40-hour work-week, overtime, minimum wage, worker-safety protections, the right to unionize, federal holidays - don't directly redistribute money, but they make life better for everyone. Public education, state-funded universities and health-care systems: same. Public roads and bridges. Research institutions. I will vote to raise my own taxes to support all of those things. More directly, I am a YIMBY (google it, if you're not familiar with the term), even if it hurts my home's value.

Like you say, you and I have very different moral frameworks. Yours is certainly ascendant in the US right now. I don't think it's going to go well, but let's check back in a few years and see if either of us have changed our minds?

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#916

Post by jart »

eszed wrote: post #915
jart wrote: post #912

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with everything you just said. It's like you have the complete opposite morality as me. I think there are more valuable things you can give people than money. I like to enrich others by writing open source code and blogging about it. It's scalable. It doesn't make me poorer. It provides others with entertainment, useful tools, and most importantly knowledge. Giving money to the desperate offers a bad retur…

> I think there are more valuable things you can give people than money. I do agree with you about that. In the context of labor law (where this discussion started), the most important - a 40-hour work-week, overtime, minimum wage, worker-safety protections, the right to unionize, federal holidays - don't directly redistribute money, but they make life better for everyone. Public education, state-funded universities…

Those policies ostensibly make life better for people, but the main reason they exist is because they stimulate technological development by driving up the cost of labor. Societies where labor was cheap, like dixie and ancient rome, weren't going to get us to the singularity. Their smart people were too comfortable. As for YIMBY now that's something we can agree on.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#917

Post by trustinmenowpls »

viccis wrote: post #711
trustinmenowpls wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone said they wanted another kistallnacht while holding torches and refusing to allow jews to walk down the street, would you know what they meant? Are they just talking about breaking some glass at a jewish wedding? Maybe they just want to go to one of those rage rooms? Just so we're clear, people are still losing their minds when someone "finds" a noose-like knot in the vicinity. There is no baily here.

You're still stuck on the bailey. Let's see the motte (in this case, some evidence of a pattern of calling for genocide of Jews at Columbia)

you got your terms confused, regardless Kristallnacht == intifada. People calling for a globalized intifada are literally calling for genocide of Jews everyone (including Columbia).

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#918

Post by ninalanyon »

low_tech_love wrote: post #425

Some personal highlights: "They’re excellent schools, and they have excellent scientists, and if one of Vice-President Vance’s kids is sick, he’s going to want the doctor to have gone to one of these schools; he’s not going to want them to have gone to Viktor Orbán’s university." "People have said to me, “Well, you take all that money from the government, why don’t you listen to them?” The answer is, because the mone…

Surely he could have expressed himself better than that. Insulting some other country's universities seems a very odd thing to do when trying to make a point about your own universities. This is especially odd as the choice of country to insult has several universities that are well inside the top 10% worldwide and rank higher than Wesleyan.

We should expect better rhetoric from the rector of a liberal arts university.

Unfortunately I can't read the actual article to see what the rest of his argument was like. I wish that HN would automatically provide links to bypass paywalls.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#919

Post by viccis »

starik36 wrote: post #758
viccis wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still stuck on the bailey. Let's see the motte (in this case, some evidence of a pattern of calling for genocide of Jews at Columbia)

How about outright harassment of Jewish students at Columbia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_at_Columbia_Unive... Does that qualify? No? Now replace Jewish with African American. Is that still OK in your book?

There was no significant harassment, and what harassment there was was a fraction compared to the harassment of Palestinian supports by others (including Jewish students and faculty). Even the article you posted points out that it's bunk at the top lol

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#920

Post by viccis »

trustinmenowpls wrote: post #917
viccis wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still stuck on the bailey. Let's see the motte (in this case, some evidence of a pattern of calling for genocide of Jews at Columbia)

you got your terms confused, regardless Kristallnacht == intifada. People calling for a globalized intifada are literally calling for genocide of Jews everyone (including Columbia).

No, my terms are correct.

The bailey is: "they are calling for the genocide of Jews!!!"

Once challenged, you will retreat to the more easily proven: "they are advocating for the return the land to the Palestinian people", as you just did there. I can promise you that no group of people needs to be allowed to occupy a previously settled region with violence in order to continue to exist. I've heard this argument from white nationalists who call for a white nation to similarly preserve their people from perceived threats, as well as heard it numerous times in African settler colonies (Rhodesia, South Africa, etc.) It's a standard ethnostate talking point, and none of us are fooled by it.

Post reply on HN