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Knowing where your engineer salary comes from

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Re: Knowing where your engineer salary comes from

#141
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Functionally 0% of companies are working on things as important or impactful as the atom bomb, and I include FAANG et al in that. Maybe a small handful of AI companies will actually put out something that important? But even most of them won't. The vast majority of companies are putting web forms over a database. Letting one or two people hold all the technical knowledge for something like that is borderline fiduciar…

That isn't the point; It's not about the importance It's about specialized knowledge. To the owners of the business, making sure the business doesn't fail to deliver is existentially important. Web developers are fungible. The guy who designed the carefully tuned graph database that runs on a custom Linux kernel with a custom tuned filesystem is not. If this sort of thing is critical to your business succeeding, that…

My point is 90% of companies have no specialized knowledge whatsoever and are staffed almost entirely by web developers.

How many companies have an in-house tuned graph database? How many companies have custom Linux kernels? How many companies have custom filesystems?

Re: Knowing where your engineer salary comes from

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

make those with power like you and rewards will flow relation to company profitability is optional and often times counterproductive

Yep, this. Being aligned with an influential and well-liked manager is probably the biggest indicator of your overall career trajectory at a company.

In my career experience, this type of successful and well-liked manager is likely to jump ship for a better offer.

Re: Knowing where your engineer salary comes from

#145

"At successful tech companies, engineering work is valued in proportion to how much money it makes the company" You would think that, but decades of experience have disproved that. Most of management, past first-gen if the company was founded by engineers, is non-technical. Most are (more or less) aware that somewhere technical engineering in software is needed, but they feel that as a threath rather than an asset. I…

> Most of management, past first-gen if the company was founded by engineers, is non-technical. Comments like these make me remember that the tech world is very big and companies come in many different shapes. I haven’t had non-technical management below the CEO level in many years.

I would love to work for a company like that. It seems like my experience with companies that have “people” vs folks with engineering experience is worse overall. My favorite jobs had all engineering talent, and management was smart enough to stay out of the way.

Re: Knowing where your engineer salary comes from

#146
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that was true 50 years ago, but in an increasingly complex technological world, problems simply cannot be solved without increasingly advanced engineering skills.

The overwhelming majority of software engineers are building garden-variety CRUD apps.

If that was really true, the world would need only ONE generic CRUD app. It just needs to operate at scale.

Re: Knowing where your engineer salary comes from

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every company I've ever worked at has more work that they would like to do than they have engineers to do it I've worked at a couple of BigTechs, where there were between 5-20x more engineers than actual work. The trade-offs are... strange in that world. > Also maybe it's a US vs EU thing, but at every engineering and IT company I've ever worked in Europe, the person two steps above me was basically always an engin…

> I've worked at a couple of BigTechs, where there were between 5-20x more engineers than actual work. The trade-offs are... strange in that world. Never seen that in my life, and I've worked at small, medium, and huge companies. Sounds wild. So they actually have zero bugs in their bug tracker, and no feature on deck waiting to be built? What do they do all day? Typical case I've seen at many companies is: Team has…

No, the company obviously makes up work to occupy their spare engineering capacity - but the point in that era of BigTechs was to hoover up all the engineering talent, whether or not you needed it.

A big chunk of the company would be off doing Greenfield projects that would mostly get cancelled before they ship, another big chunk is off working on multi-year rewrites of existing services (that never finish), every successful team sprouts spin-off teams with amorphous charters like "apply machine learning to service X"...

It's a side effect of an incentive structure that drives all the managers to grow headcount as fast as they can (since you need more reports to justify promo), and money basically growing on trees in those places

Re: Knowing where your engineer salary comes from

#148
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it better when it's held hostage by a couple of non-technical employees?

Non-technical employees are by definition replaceable. Unless they are sales reps that have good relations with customers.

In that case, all employees bar sales reps are replaceable (and the reps are too, you just see the pain more).

Re: Knowing where your engineer salary comes from

#149

"At successful tech companies, engineering work is valued in proportion to how much money it makes the company" You would think that, but decades of experience have disproved that. Most of management, past first-gen if the company was founded by engineers, is non-technical. Most are (more or less) aware that somewhere technical engineering in software is needed, but they feel that as a threath rather than an asset. I…

Admiral Rickover was likely the single most competent engineering manager in the last century and wrote this: Doing a Job https://govleaders.org/rickover.htm

Complex jobs cannot be accomplished effectively with transients. Therefore, a manager must make the work challenging and rewarding so that his people will remain with the organization for many years. This allows it to benefit fully from their knowledge, experience, and corporate memory.

The Defense Department does not recognize the need for continuity in important jobs. It rotates officer every few years both at headquarters and in the field. The same applies to their civilian superiors.

This system virtually ensures inexperience and nonaccountability. By the time an officer has begun to learn a job, it is time for him to rotate. Under this system, incumbents can blame their problems on predecessors. They are assigned to another job before the results of their work become evident. Subordinates cannot be expected to remain committed to a job and perform effectively when they are continuously adapting to a new job or to a new boss.

When doing a job—any job—one must feel that he owns it, and act as though he will remain in the job forever. He must look after his work just as conscientiously, as though it were his own business and his own money. If he feels he is only a temporary custodian, or that the job is just a stepping stone to a higher position, his actions will not take into account the long-term interests of the organization. His lack of commitment to the present job will be perceived by those who work for him, and they, likewise, will tend not to care. Too many spend their entire working lives looking for their next job. When one feels he owns his present job and acts that way, he need have no concern about his next job.

Rickover would be a savage critic of society and American culture as it is now, he even was then. He was a man who successfully challenged people in power, which is why I imagine most people never hear of him. He won many political battles, but the same people he challenged remained in power. When they wrote the history books, they diminish his legacy, because they don't want stories of people successfully challenging power structures and especially not stories of people who challeneged corporate power, or prove that the government can do something better, cheaper, and more dangerous/complicated than corporations.

Re: Knowing where your engineer salary comes from

#150
post #121
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most organizations the engineering manager would share that prioritization responsibility with a product manager who acts as the voice of the customer. One simple approach is to just divide team capacity into two buckets: 80% for new features and customer bug fixes, 20% for tech debt. The specific percentages can vary based on circumstances.

"Some portion of your time is reserved to work on whatever you want to work on with no input from outside your small team" does not work long term and it does not work at scale. Even among engineering software is somewhat unique in that we intentionally make sub-optimal decisions and then expect other departments not to raise an eyebrow when we demand time away from the next set of features to address (some of) those…

Nah. I've seen that kind of capacity allocation work just fine on large teams and programs. It's not "whatever you want", the tech debt payments still have to be justified with escalating levels of approval required depending on effort and risk.
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