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Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

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Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#411

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

senordevnyc wrote: post #383
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they'll deport innocent US citizens to El Salvador and then argue it's impossible to get them back I don't have any hope at all as a visitor. There's no way in hell I'm stepping foot in the United States right now.

To be fair, I don’t think we have any evidence of this happening to a citizen yet. I’m guessing we will soon though :(

Good point, the man I was thinking of isn't a citizen. But even though the administration has admitted it was an error, they still aren't interested in seeing him returned.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#413

Post by DeathArrow »

thesuitonym wrote: post #209
palata wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the President of the United States threatens to invade ex-allies, I don't think that the threatened people give a shit about what the American people think about it. The fact that this guy is the President means that most Americans were not against it, right? Of course most Americans don't want random people detained. But still, this is happening in the US. And one thing that I believe is absolutely clear outsid…

> The fact that this guy is the President means that most Americans were not against it, right? I don't know if that's strictly accurate. United States citizens are some of the most heavily disenfranchised in the western world. Our oligarchs have spent decades making it more difficult to vote, especially for people of color, who overwhelmingly disapprove of the current administration. In some urban areas, it can take…

[flagged]

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#414

Post by alxlaz »

DeathArrow wrote: post #335
alxlaz wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^ this. Once (oh, actually twice!) while travelling, I have had entirely benign trouble with paperwork (things like not filling a form correctly on the first attempt). Explaining the circumstances to someone who has to figure out if you're scatter-brained, unlucky, or an actual criminal, isn't particularly fun, but it's been entirely professional and civilised. We resolved it all in about half an hour. Didn't even mi…

So you genuinely think that if you go to the US you have a high risk of being imprisoned without due process even if you you don't break any US law?

> So you genuinely think that if you go to the US you have a high risk of being imprisoned without due process even if you you don't break any US law?

I think that the risk of being imprisoned without due process is very low, but still substantially higher than in any other Western country, and certainly high enough not to justify the risk.

I also think that the risk of being temporarily imprisoned with due process, until they figure out that I haven't broken any law anywhere, is also very low, but still substantially higher than in most Western countries. And certainly high enough that it's not worth the risk.

I don't have an issue with border controls being a thing. I'm not a free travel idealist. I get why border controls exist, I think the premise of not letting people in unless they provably meet the host country's requirement is perfectly reasonable, and I certainly think that, even if someone did nothing wrong and just doesn't have their documentation in order, sending them back home on the first flight is an entirely reasonable thing to do. I just think that, in the current political climate, both the chances of being the victim of good old abuse and the chances of well-meaning ICE personnel screwing up are too high to be worth crossing the Atlantic for.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#415

Post by CapricornNoble »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #96
ta1243 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger debate I see is if it's worse for the US or worse for the rest of the world. The consensus is it's awful for everyone, apart from a few environmentalists that are looking forward to the reduce carbon emissions from a great depression. I think the consensus is that if the rest of the world grows a spine it will emerge far stronger and the US a weaker state to before - akin to change the British Empire post…

This is off topic, but I've actually found comfort in how it has galvanised Europe. What worries me is which side the US (government, not people) would choose to support if EU states send troops to Ukraine's front lines, which would absolutely instigate a Russian response. (Trump wouldn't like that the little EU states are messing with his negotiations for the shrinking and pillaging of Ukraine, and Trump is, if noth…

>What worries me is which side the US (government, not people) would choose to support if EU states send troops to Ukraine's front lines, which would absolutely instigate a Russian response.

Even the Biden administration was going out of its way to not push Russia too far. None of The Powers That Be in the US are interested in stumbling into WW3 with Russia, over Ukraine. Stumbling into WW3 with China, over Taiwan? Maybe. So I'd say Europe should approach such a decision from the assumption that you will receive no support from the US if you go down that road. If Europe wants to send its men to the killing fields of the Ostfront, it's on its own.

Assuming Europe, collectively, can even change the balance of power on the ground is also a stretch. Even some of the larger established militaries in Europe don't have the bodies to move the needle in this fight. The British Army, for example, has woefully understrength infantry battalions and is struggling with enlistment.[1][2] France claims they can put a division into the field [3] but I doubt that, probably more like a reinforced brigade (~5,000). I really don't get the impression European civil society is ready for hundreds or thousands of bodies to start coming back home either, but I could be wrong on that.

Meanwhile Russia inducted ~440,000 men last year, beating recruiting goals courtesy of MASSIVE cash enlistment bonuses, and still expects to grow their end strength this year as well.[4]

[1] https://x.com/Mrgunsngear/status/1908330593005322480

[2] https://www.euronews.com/2025/02/27/can-the-british-military...

[3] https://www.ausa.org/articles/french-army-transforms-close-c...

[4] https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-beating-military-recr...

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#416

Post by davidmurdoch »

throaway1989 wrote: post #337
davidmurdoch wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think I'M snarky?! This isn't Reddit. A good faith interpretation of what they said wouldn't include projecting fear-mongering politics into their meaning.

Your comment is very reddit-esque. "do you think the US is a monoculture?" implying that the commenter does think that, and that that thought is ignorant and absurd. Instead of asking what they are referring to so you can discuss the point they're making. What fear mongering politics? The commenter is obviously talking about the reported cases of people being detained, deported, and harassed for their political views…

> implying that the commenter does think that, and that that thought is ignorant and absurd

It is a widely held view of the US by many foreigners; they don't conceptualize how big and diverse the US is.

I thought a perfectly reasonable and likely interpretation of their comment is that the later sentence, with the "also" does not connect their `value of being a tourism in the US` comment to the political climate. Other commenters here apparently do weigh the cost of travel with the risk the government of the country will detain them.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#417

Post by atkailash »

bilbo0s wrote: post #343
kccqzy wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump won the popular vote unfortunately. Most of the country couldn't vote at all because they are immigrants (not citizens) or because of any of the structural reasons why they couldn't take time off to vote or they were intimated at the ballot box. Voting day still isn't a federal holiday.

The bad news is that 2024 was one of those elections where both candidates were so bad, that the winner didn't even manage to get 50% of the cast votes. https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/elections/2024 Trump/Vance got 49.1% of the popular vote, and Kamala/Walz got 48.3% of the popular vote. None of those clowns even cracked 50%. The candidates were so bad, that you could win without getting a majority of the…

[dead]

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#418

Post by DeathArrow »

coliveira wrote: post #269
potato3732842 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the news feeds within the US may be approximately equal in their delivery of "this is good change" versus "this is catastrophic change", whilst internationally it's almost entirely "this is catastrophic change" with minor pockets of intolerance apologia. Exactly. Americans generally don't understand the degree to which the rest of the world gets the CNN 5min recap of what's going on in the US, and it's very…

Feelings of Americans don't matter much in this equation. Most are delusional about what is happening in one way or another. People from other countries will not get even close to the US while there is a chance they will be jailed and sent to a lawless detention center for looking different.

>People from other countries will not get even close to the US while there is a chance they will be jailed and sent to a lawless detention center for looking different.

I am from Europe. I don't think I look different than an American.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#419

Post by bananalychee »

stevage wrote: post #147
bananalychee wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Detained" as in sent to secondary inspection, or actually arrested?

They used the term detained, but "secondary inspection" would also describe it. I was there maybe 40 minutes.

I've been in secondary, but didn't have it described to me that way. I would not call it detainment without clarifying it because I associate that word with incarceration, but I am also reluctant to travel knowing the odds of that happening again are up.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#420

Post by Juliate »

newsclues wrote: post #206

Are these changes long term trends? Is the reporting and media coverage on this, going to contribute to the potential harm of this being a long term impact? (is the hype creating the conditions?)

Are the USA (Trump) changes a long term trend? Or just a foolish irrational skit they'll take on decades to come back from, if ever?

Is the media coverage supposed to entertain the powers that be, or to report things as they are?

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