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Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

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Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#391

Post by bilbo0s »

oblio wrote: post #322
avalys wrote: post #273

I see all these articles about Canadian and European hate for the US, and anti-US sentiment in general. They all sadden me. The US is made up of 350 million people. Only one of them is Donald Trump. Most of the country didn’t vote for him. We still value our friends and allies, even if the stooge Putin got elected does not.

Trump was elected twice. The fact that that happened shows something is deeply wrong in the US. The US government, (mostly) democratically elected, has decided to harm the rest of the world. Even if there are good people in the US, they can't seem to win. So one could argue, what use are the good people in the US, for everyone else? So the reaction is kind of expected and natural.

Fair point.

I'll allow it.

But that doesn't change the fact that there are good people in the US.

But good and bad are a bit irrelevant. I believe it was a mistake to go poking Europe with a stick because there are 600 million people there. Most far better educated than us. They were perfectly contented to sleep in the then current global order, and willing to help with maintaining that order if called on in an emergency.

For some incomprehensible reason, we decide to go over there and poke that lion?

I don't get it because I genuinely believe that Europe would be the best partner for the US. It's not because I'm "good" or "bad", but because I believe close relations with Europe are good for this republic. Now obviously, in the US at the moment, mine is not the consensus view. That's fine. But I believe it's gonna cost us.

China and the EU will become closer. All of Asia will begin to realize there is more to be gained by working together than working at odds with each other.

And heaven help the rest of the world if the Europeans, the Chinese, and the Africans ever figure out that if they work together they don't really need the rest of us.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#392

Post by n4r9 »

dfxm12 wrote: post #272
n4r9 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's good to know, but presumably that happens every year so doesn't explain the year-on-year increase in March shown in the graph.

It happens every year, but not necessarily on the same dates, both year to year and family to family, depending largely on where you or your kids go to school. Most people I know had spring break Mar 17-23 this year. It was a few weeks earlier last year.

I see. According to this [0] website spring break finished typically in mid-March last year. Perhaps that explains why the blue line in OP dips back to 0% around mid-March.

[0] https://www.eduvast.com/news/spring-break-2024-dates-for-us-...

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#393

Post by palata »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #138
palata wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the President of the United States threatens to invade ex-allies, I don't think that the threatened people give a shit about what the American people think about it. The fact that this guy is the President means that most Americans were not against it, right? Of course most Americans don't want random people detained. But still, this is happening in the US. And one thing that I believe is absolutely clear outsid…

> There is this kind of American patriotism Doesn‘t look much different from Russian, Israeli or Chinese patriotism. When outsiders criticize your tribe for doing bad things, many are standing in support of the tribe, not the values, and they are the most visible.

Sure. But when the US threaten to invade an ally militarily, therefore destroying the status of "allies" for the foreseeable future and looking more like enemies, I suppose it's more shocking for those ex-allies than... say... when the US find a bullshit reason to invade Irak.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#394

Post by palata »

DeathArrow wrote: post #386
ivan_gammel wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is this kind of American patriotism Doesn‘t look much different from Russian, Israeli or Chinese patriotism. When outsiders criticize your tribe for doing bad things, many are standing in support of the tribe, not the values, and they are the most visible.

Isn't it natural to support your people?

Probably, but if your dad starts beating a kid in the street, I hope you'll do something about it. Also for your dad's sake and for your family reputation.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#395

Post by mikepurvis »

neogodless wrote: post #351
mikepurvis wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet today's polling still shows a 43% approval rating for this president and administration: https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-approval-rating-now-... As a Canadian who normally travels to the US 3-4 times a year, that tells me everything I need to know about what "most Americans" think.

I don't blame your sentiment, but as part of the 57% that MASSIVELY DISAPPROVES of that nutjob, I don't like the "most" word being used here ;) Try to remember our weird Electoral College, and that ultimately the vote came down to ~230,000 votes in swing states. (I'm in one of them, and I voted against the felon.) Also hate that "mainstream news" like ABC and CBS covered Saturday's protests with the phrase "tens of t…

I'm not going to split hairs over what 43% means, but the point is that we are still in an ecosystem where "Trump supporter" is a viable political stance and very much has a seat at the table of discourse.

That state of affairs is utterly unacceptable, and signals that overwhelmingly the country doesn't get it yet. Look at how many Greenlanders like Trump— those are the numbers you need to be pulling at home. Once 80-90% of the US population agrees that he's not only a bad president but a threat to democracy and a criminal, then we can talk about feeling safe to travel there again.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#396

Post by jeroenhd »

ta1243 wrote: post #163
jeroenhd wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far, the travel warnings I've seen all specify specific groups targeted by the American government, such as LGBTQ+ people. News of tourists getting imprisoned for weeks or longer have been all over the news, but so far Europe doesn't seem to have actually brought out a general warning for that kind of danger. That said, the people I've spoken to (most of which aren't LGBT+) are hesitant to go to the US now. There'…

> So far, the travel warnings I've seen all specify specific groups targeted by the American government, such as LGBTQ+ people. The travel warnings for Germany in the 1930s were specific groups targeted by the Nazi government, such as Jewish people

The similarity is obvious, but there's a difference between "a travel warning has been issued for minorities" and "a travel warning has been issued".

Unlike what the right-wing media may make it seem, the amount of trans/nonbinary people is absolutely minute. The warnings apply to at most a percentage of the population, and even then it only affects the people that have come out of the closet and jumped through the hoops necessary to get their passport altered.

That obviously doesn't make the political trend _right_, but the geopolitical and economic implications are very different.

These warnings don't include advice against entering the country as a tourist, despite the recent reports of tourists getting arrested and locked away at the border. Such a warning would set a much more grim tone for the future of the western bloc.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#397

Post by palata »

brookst wrote: post #145
palata wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the President of the United States threatens to invade ex-allies, I don't think that the threatened people give a shit about what the American people think about it. The fact that this guy is the President means that most Americans were not against it, right? Of course most Americans don't want random people detained. But still, this is happening in the US. And one thing that I believe is absolutely clear outsid…

> most Americans are perfectly fine with "America First". I agree with everything you said, except this. Sub “many” and I’d go with it. But at least here, in blue state / more-sane land, there is widespread horror and outrage. We’re only at the “tens of thousands of people protesting” stage and I’ll be the first to say Americans need to do more, but I think it’s going to far to say most Americans don’t care about the…

I can't edit it, but my point was that this is the perception from the outside. And really I believe that the perception is that most Americans are fine with America First.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#398

Post by DeathArrow »

brookst wrote: post #145
palata wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the President of the United States threatens to invade ex-allies, I don't think that the threatened people give a shit about what the American people think about it. The fact that this guy is the President means that most Americans were not against it, right? Of course most Americans don't want random people detained. But still, this is happening in the US. And one thing that I believe is absolutely clear outsid…

> most Americans are perfectly fine with "America First". I agree with everything you said, except this. Sub “many” and I’d go with it. But at least here, in blue state / more-sane land, there is widespread horror and outrage. We’re only at the “tens of thousands of people protesting” stage and I’ll be the first to say Americans need to do more, but I think it’s going to far to say most Americans don’t care about the…

[flagged]

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#399

Post by d3nj4l »

DeathArrow wrote: post #378
mannykannot wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that seeing the Fox spin on US events would persuade many people that the US is currently a place of rationality and the rule of law.

Doesn't the crime rate go down when Republicans hold the power? I think the crime rate is a major concern for every tourist. Doesn't Florida have a much lower crime rate than California? As a tourist, I rather visit Florida than California.

Yeah, tourists like to go to places with low crime rates. In fact, when I’m a tourist, I pick where to go solely based on the crime rates!

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#400

Post by hansvm »

johanvts wrote: post #57
Brendinooo wrote: post #27

>This newsletter doesn’t delve into politics, and the reason for this change is both pretty obvious and not in need of further discussion here. Can someone state the obvious for me please? The two thoughts in my head were "this is because tourism is down" and "this is because migrants/asylum seekers aren't crossing the border at the moment". I would think you'd draw different conclusions if it's one or the other, but…

A general sense that the US is actively trying to hurt us in the rest of the world. Enabling Putin, stopping USAID programs, imposing tariffs etc. the list is long by now. Just makes you not feel like supporting it by buying US or going there and spending money. Secondly lots of stories about tourists being detained by ICE make it feel even almost scary to go.

We have a general sense that the US is actively trying to hurt us here in the US too.
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