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Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

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Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#131

Post by bayindirh »

chimeracoder wrote: post #86
world2vec wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. If someone from "high tier" countries like Canada and Germany can get locked up in ICE jails for several weeks imagine someone like me from a peripheral European country. Even worse, my youngest brother that has a more "tanned" appearance. tattoos, and a beard. I won't be visiting the US for the foreseeable future (used to go several times per year for work), just not worth the risk.

> Exactly this. If someone from "high tier" countries like Canada and Germany can get locked up in ICE jails for several weeks imagine someone like me from a peripheral European country. Even worse, my youngest brother that has a more "tanned" appearance. tattoos, and a beard. Out of curiosity, what do you think it's like to travel to Europe as someone who is dark-skinned, has a beard, and does not have a European pa…

I constantly travel to EU for work. I see all kinds of people from any part of the world, and they pass through fine.

When I traveled last time, I have witnessed an European denied entry for a reason I don't know, and a white male without any beard has been escorted into the immigration office.

Said office had a giant window. The officers were just chatting with him while checking his documents, and also drinking some coffee and eating some cake. I didn't look that long to see whether they have offered the same to him (because it's rude).

Also, I don't have an EU/UK/US passport, and I just pass fine.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#134

Post by chrizel »

Me and my wife had the plans of visiting the US every year for vacation before our daughter starts with school in a couple of years. Not anymore. I think this administration will not only destroy a lot of goodwill and business relationships, but also the dreams of many people who had a positive attitude towards the US.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#135

Post by amelius »

qoez wrote: post #4

The US used to be the coolest place I'd do anything to visit growing up. In the last decade or so it's become way more unattractive and not worth the effort compared to alternatives.

> The US used to be the coolest place I'd do anything to visit growing up.

Huh, city centers in Europe are way nicer than anything I've seen in the US. But maybe you're more interested in other things.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#136

Post by ta1243 »

chimeracoder wrote: post #86
world2vec wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. If someone from "high tier" countries like Canada and Germany can get locked up in ICE jails for several weeks imagine someone like me from a peripheral European country. Even worse, my youngest brother that has a more "tanned" appearance. tattoos, and a beard. I won't be visiting the US for the foreseeable future (used to go several times per year for work), just not worth the risk.

> Exactly this. If someone from "high tier" countries like Canada and Germany can get locked up in ICE jails for several weeks imagine someone like me from a peripheral European country. Even worse, my youngest brother that has a more "tanned" appearance. tattoos, and a beard. Out of curiosity, what do you think it's like to travel to Europe as someone who is dark-skinned, has a beard, and does not have a European pa…

> Out of curiosity, what do you think it's like to travel to Europe as someone who is dark-skinned, has a beard, and does not have a European passport?

With a Canadian or American passport (until recently)? No problem.

With an Iranian passport? Probably more problems.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#137

Post by chimeracoder »

sofixa wrote: post #120
chimeracoder wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Exactly this. If someone from "high tier" countries like Canada and Germany can get locked up in ICE jails for several weeks imagine someone like me from a peripheral European country. Even worse, my youngest brother that has a more "tanned" appearance. tattoos, and a beard. Out of curiosity, what do you think it's like to travel to Europe as someone who is dark-skinned, has a beard, and does not have a European pa…

> Out of curiosity, what do you think it's like to travel to Europe as someone who is dark-skinned, has a beard, and does not have a European passport? Depends on which part of Europe. In the more diverse parts, nobody would bat an eyelid (even if border police might profile you). EU Eastern Europe, you might get funny looks but it's still not an extraordinary situation to have various shades of skin colour (e.g. Syr…

> Depends on which part of Europe. In the more diverse parts, nobody would bat an eyelid (even if border police might profile you).

As a person who matches the description above, and has traveled to Europe extensively and frequently, I can tell you that as much as Europeans like to believe this is this case, it is absolutely not true.

> Nobody will throw you in jail in indefinite detention in another country with no human rights because of your skin colour, beard, tattoos or anything of the like. Other than of course the usual suspects of Belarus, Russia, Azerbaijan and etc. who could for any reason.

Unless you're making some extremely critical assumptions about how much wear the word "indefinite" can bear, this is unfortunately not true either.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#138

Post by ivan_gammel »

palata wrote: post #110
potato3732842 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the news feeds within the US may be approximately equal in their delivery of "this is good change" versus "this is catastrophic change", whilst internationally it's almost entirely "this is catastrophic change" with minor pockets of intolerance apologia. Exactly. Americans generally don't understand the degree to which the rest of the world gets the CNN 5min recap of what's going on in the US, and it's very…

When the President of the United States threatens to invade ex-allies, I don't think that the threatened people give a shit about what the American people think about it. The fact that this guy is the President means that most Americans were not against it, right? Of course most Americans don't want random people detained. But still, this is happening in the US. And one thing that I believe is absolutely clear outsid…

> There is this kind of American patriotism

Doesn‘t look much different from Russian, Israeli or Chinese patriotism. When outsiders criticize your tribe for doing bad things, many are standing in support of the tribe, not the values, and they are the most visible.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#139

Post by baxtr »

I think it's relevant to consider the baseline.

Based on a quick online research, I estimate there are about 30-40k visitors landing from Europe in the US on any day. So roughly 3 million people in the last 3 months.

I have seen maybe 5-10 very prominent cases in the last 3 months.

Are these numbers roughly correct?

Do we have any knowledge that this number is higher than before?

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#140

Post by ikanreed »

bananalychee wrote: post #49
stevage wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Last time I went to the US I made a mistake with my visa and was briefly detained. it could totally happen to me again, so I'd need a really good reason to run that risk again.

"Detained" as in sent to secondary inspection, or actually arrested?

So... immigration services in the US don't use criminal language when discussing how they handle people accused of immigration offenses, because there's a whole legal structure to pretending it's a civil infraction and thus you don't have any rights related to say... trial by jury or the state proving your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

But. The mechanical processes can include indefinite detention in facilities that look and function exactly like jails.

So... what you CALL it is almost certainly something different than what it is.

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