I guess in the 1930s, Americans had similar thoughts about Germans.
Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March
111–120 of 613 posts
Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March
#112Americans do not understand how much press there is outside the US about tourists from Ireland / Germany / Canada getting locked up in ICE jails for weeks on end. It's one thing to refuse entry to someone who doesn't have the right documents. The fear goes to a completely different level once people see tourists getting locked up. As someone who lived in the US for 22 years legally and most of my social and business…
Just the trade stuff, Trump's childish threats to allies. All seem baseless and arbitrary. Trump can't even keep track of who started the war in Ukraine... People don't realize how much good will is being toss aside.
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Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March
#113Can DOGE therefore justify cutting a whole lot of jobs that process tourists? Or has that already been privatised?
TSA and all of its security theater is going to get the boot. Airports can manage their own security. That won’t change international customs which is still managed federally.
Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
There’s no reason to lock tourists up. If you don’t want them put them on the first flight back. Locking people up is expensive and if they’re willing to leave anyway, totally pointless. You would think that a country with a whole department devoted to government efficiency could work that out.
Aren’t a lot of jails private and for profit? Just bill the tourist for the stay and detain until they pay in full (accruing even more debt in the meantime). It makes perfect business sense which is all that seems to matter to the US nowadays.
>Aren’t a lot of jails private and for profit?
No, it's a small-ish minority of them. Most are government owned and run.
That said, there's a huge incentive to piss away money holding people so you can justify your budget and use poor conditions to justify increases in budget. And on top of that the contractors that supply government jails are pretty evil too.
So it's really a distinction without a difference at the end of the day, it's all a pretty rotten system.
Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are you trying to argue though? I am a bit at a loss to follow. Be so kind and explain. You want foreign readers to read news about how half of the US wants you, the foreign tourist, be locked up in a jail cell? The news is already out there. Everyone assumes it's so wanted, because well... it does actually happen
I'm not arguing anything. I'm agreeing. Why do I have to be arguing? "ICE goes crazy looking for crimes, hapless tourists caught up in the boondoggle" and "ICE detaining tourists for no good reason" Are both 100% true ways to headline the same events. Which framing is Europe getting? This is something to watch out for on all issues, not just immigration/foreign affairs.
But what does it matter? "Hapless tourists caught up in the boondoggle" is just as bad (and maybe worse) from the POV of said tourists.
If you're worried, though, that "ICE goes crazy" is an underrepresented perspective in the rest of the world, I can reassure you on that count...
Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March
#116Countries all over the world are issuing US travel warnings. If there's an error or mistake on your visa you risk being detained by ICE for weeks on end or even end up in the Gulag in El Salvador. For European visitors, they can see the fascism miles away. A lot of Europe was occupied by Hitler while the US wasn't. The extraordinary claim that Musk's salute wasn't a Nazi salute is mind boggling. Even when people have…
So far, the travel warnings I've seen all specify specific groups targeted by the American government, such as LGBTQ+ people.
News of tourists getting imprisoned for weeks or longer have been all over the news, but so far Europe doesn't seem to have actually brought out a general warning for that kind of danger.
That said, the people I've spoken to (most of which aren't LGBT+) are hesitant to go to the US now. There's a stark difference between the "haha, what the fuck, US" sentiment I used to sense and the "what the fuck, US" we're getting now.
Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March
#117The 'sea' of data is huge - I am doubtless entered into it multiple times with all manner of associated data.
The ICE casts it's net (with a pack of valid as well as a far number of non-valid associations) through this sea and when it lifts it there are number of 'fish' therein. I will be in there, among the silvery bodies and the attached associations.
I am 'by-catch' as I have no crime ever - but millions of tons of bycatch die even if discarded.
There is an old French Canadian poem, that says, in essence - 'The wind might roar, and the waves they might dash, but you will not drown on Lac Sainte Pierre - so long as you stay on the shore.
Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March
#118Beyond the recent chilling effects from people being detained, the idea of having your digital presence scanned and judged by a flaky arbiter at the border, or having your devices imaged and/or backdoored are big turnoffs for me.
Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March
#119After several tourists were detained for weeks in terrible conditions, it’s little wonder why
I'm an EU citizen who's on the organizer team of Elm Camp 2025, and I'm really on the fence whether to even risk the flight to US and attending, hearing these stories :(
What visa do you hold? I wouldn't be confident that organising a conference would fall under ESTA or B1, speaking at one should be, but ultimately it's upto the goon looking at your application at the desk. In any case ensure you immigrate as early in the day as possible to maximise the chance of a quick deportation if you are rejected.
Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly this. If someone from "high tier" countries like Canada and Germany can get locked up in ICE jails for several weeks imagine someone like me from a peripheral European country. Even worse, my youngest brother that has a more "tanned" appearance. tattoos, and a beard. I won't be visiting the US for the foreseeable future (used to go several times per year for work), just not worth the risk.
> Exactly this. If someone from "high tier" countries like Canada and Germany can get locked up in ICE jails for several weeks imagine someone like me from a peripheral European country. Even worse, my youngest brother that has a more "tanned" appearance. tattoos, and a beard. Out of curiosity, what do you think it's like to travel to Europe as someone who is dark-skinned, has a beard, and does not have a European pa…
> Out of curiosity, what do you think it's like to travel to Europe as someone who is dark-skinned, has a beard, and does not have a European passport?
Depends on which part of Europe. In the more diverse parts, nobody would bat an eyelid (even if border police might profile you).
EU Eastern Europe, you might get funny looks but it's still not an extraordinary situation to have various shades of skin colour (e.g. Syrians, various Central Asians are migrant workers in a few of the countries in question; a lot of e.g. the Balkans are on a palette of skin colours).
Non-EU Eastern Europe (referring more to Belarus than Montenegro here), might get casual racism.
Nobody will throw you in jail in indefinite detention in another country with no human rights because of your skin colour, beard, tattoos or anything of the like. Other than of course the usual suspects of Belarus, Russia, Azerbaijan and etc. who could for any reason.