Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March • Hacker News Board

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#91

Post by ajross » Mon, Apr 07, 2025, 1:05 PM UTC

potato3732842 wrote: post #34

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the news feeds within the US may be approximately equal in their delivery of "this is good change" versus "this is catastrophic change", whilst internationally it's almost entirely "this is catastrophic change" with minor pockets of intolerance apologia. I'd be interested in alternate viewpoints since I may be in a bleeding-heart, empathetic, progressive, consequence-considering news bubble. My reasoning is t…

>I think the news feeds within the US may be approximately equal in their delivery of "this is good change" versus "this is catastrophic change", whilst internationally it's almost entirely "this is catastrophic change" with minor pockets of intolerance apologia. Exactly. Americans generally don't understand the degree to which the rest of the world gets the CNN 5min recap of what's going on in the US, and it's very…

> ~half the country doesn't think ICE should be locking up tourists without good reason and the other ~half doesn't think ICE should be locking up anyone

That is not remotely a good faith representation of the controversy.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#92

Post by akie » Mon, Apr 07, 2025, 1:05 PM UTC

mjaniczek wrote: post #41

daedrdev wrote: post #5

After several tourists were detained for weeks in terrible conditions, it’s little wonder why

I'm an EU citizen who's on the organizer team of Elm Camp 2025, and I'm really on the fence whether to even risk the flight to US and attending, hearing these stories :(

Don't go. Easy. You'll be at the mercy of individual ICE agents. Read this if you're wondering if it's the right decision, because this could be you: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-det...

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#93

Post by ornornor » Mon, Apr 07, 2025, 1:05 PM UTC

badgersnake wrote: post #58

potato3732842 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the news feeds within the US may be approximately equal in their delivery of "this is good change" versus "this is catastrophic change", whilst internationally it's almost entirely "this is catastrophic change" with minor pockets of intolerance apologia. Exactly. Americans generally don't understand the degree to which the rest of the world gets the CNN 5min recap of what's going on in the US, and it's very…

There’s no reason to lock tourists up. If you don’t want them put them on the first flight back. Locking people up is expensive and if they’re willing to leave anyway, totally pointless. You would think that a country with a whole department devoted to government efficiency could work that out.

Aren’t a lot of jails private and for profit? Just bill the tourist for the stay and detain until they pay in full (accruing even more debt in the meantime). It makes perfect business sense which is all that seems to matter to the US nowadays.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#94

Post by moolcool » Mon, Apr 07, 2025, 1:05 PM UTC

aiisahik wrote: post #13

Americans do not understand how much press there is outside the US about tourists from Ireland / Germany / Canada getting locked up in ICE jails for weeks on end. It's one thing to refuse entry to someone who doesn't have the right documents. The fear goes to a completely different level once people see tourists getting locked up. As someone who lived in the US for 22 years legally and most of my social and business…

In the case of Canada I think it has more to do with the tariffs, and the open hostility to our sovereignty.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#95

Post by xnx » Mon, Apr 07, 2025, 1:06 PM UTC

Global depression is going to result in a whole lot less of all kinds of economic activity.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#96

Post by BLKNSLVR » Mon, Apr 07, 2025, 1:06 PM UTC

ta1243 wrote: post #70

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the news feeds within the US may be approximately equal in their delivery of "this is good change" versus "this is catastrophic change", whilst internationally it's almost entirely "this is catastrophic change" with minor pockets of intolerance apologia. I'd be interested in alternate viewpoints since I may be in a bleeding-heart, empathetic, progressive, consequence-considering news bubble. My reasoning is t…

The bigger debate I see is if it's worse for the US or worse for the rest of the world. The consensus is it's awful for everyone, apart from a few environmentalists that are looking forward to the reduce carbon emissions from a great depression. I think the consensus is that if the rest of the world grows a spine it will emerge far stronger and the US a weaker state to before - akin to change the British Empire post…

This is off topic, but I've actually found comfort in how it has galvanised Europe.

What worries me is which side the US (government, not people) would choose to support if EU states send troops to Ukraine's front lines, which would absolutely instigate a Russian response.

(Trump wouldn't like that the little EU states are messing with his negotiations for the shrinking and pillaging of Ukraine, and Trump is, if nothing else, vengeful).

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#97

Post by jyounker » Mon, Apr 07, 2025, 1:06 PM UTC

goda90 wrote: post #18

daedrdev wrote: post #5

After several tourists were detained for weeks in terrible conditions, it’s little wonder why

ICE statements about detention say it's supposed to be non-punitive, but clearly it's punishing for the detained. Lots of people get detained for what are actually civil violations or even just suspicion of civil violations, not crimes. We really need a new system. People shouldn't be locked up for more than 24 hours until they've seen a judge, and I imagine in many cases, lockup could be avoided entirely with a cour…

Yeah, I can't imagine any honest and sane person describing solitary confinement as "non-punitive". What ICE is doing is both cruel and expensive.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#98

Post by potato3732842 » Mon, Apr 07, 2025, 1:07 PM UTC

ulfw wrote: post #73

potato3732842 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the news feeds within the US may be approximately equal in their delivery of "this is good change" versus "this is catastrophic change", whilst internationally it's almost entirely "this is catastrophic change" with minor pockets of intolerance apologia. Exactly. Americans generally don't understand the degree to which the rest of the world gets the CNN 5min recap of what's going on in the US, and it's very…

What are you trying to argue though? I am a bit at a loss to follow. Be so kind and explain. You want foreign readers to read news about how half of the US wants you, the foreign tourist, be locked up in a jail cell? The news is already out there. Everyone assumes it's so wanted, because well... it does actually happen

I'm not arguing anything. I'm agreeing. Why do I have to be arguing?

"ICE goes crazy looking for crimes, hapless tourists caught up in the boondoggle"

and

"ICE detaining tourists for no good reason"

Are both 100% true ways to headline the same events. Which framing is Europe getting?

This is something to watch out for on all issues, not just immigration/foreign affairs.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#99

Post by eCa » Mon, Apr 07, 2025, 1:07 PM UTC

Brendinooo wrote: post #27

>This newsletter doesn’t delve into politics, and the reason for this change is both pretty obvious and not in need of further discussion here. Can someone state the obvious for me please? The two thoughts in my head were "this is because tourism is down" and "this is because migrants/asylum seekers aren't crossing the border at the moment". I would think you'd draw different conclusions if it's one or the other, but…

A few reasons come to mind, as a EU citizen:

* The US has repeatedly threatened military invasion of a country (Denmark) near mine.

* The US has basically given Russia the green light to invade the rest of EU when ready.

* Mentioned elsewhere in this thread: The many reports of travellers being detained for weeks.

* The US has recently started an economic war on the entire world, except Russia.

Why would I want to visit?

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#100

Post by mbfg » Mon, Apr 07, 2025, 1:07 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #51

aiisahik wrote: post #13

Americans do not understand how much press there is outside the US about tourists from Ireland / Germany / Canada getting locked up in ICE jails for weeks on end. It's one thing to refuse entry to someone who doesn't have the right documents. The fear goes to a completely different level once people see tourists getting locked up. As someone who lived in the US for 22 years legally and most of my social and business…

Just the trade stuff, Trump's childish threats to allies. All seem baseless and arbitrary. Trump can't even keep track of who started the war in Ukraine... People don't realize how much good will is being toss aside.

We realize, just nothing we can do about it.