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The Llama 4 herd

ai.meta.com

231–240 of 695 posts

Re: The Llama 4 herd

#231
post #189

I don't think open source will be the future of AI models. Self hosting an AI model is much more complex and resource incentive than traditional open source SaaS. Meta will likely have a negative ROI on their AI efforts

The users of open source software are not limited to individuals. A bank, hedge fund, or intelligence agency might be willing to put forth the effort to self host an AI model versus sending their prompts and RAG context to a third party.

Re: The Llama 4 herd

#232
post #31

As expected, Meta doesn't disappoint and accelerates the race to zero. Meta is undervalued.

How does Meta make money from Llama?

It’s an extending innovation for them - makes them more efficient internally, and crucially engages their ad-driven customer base. Giving it away is great, it levels the playing field for competitors on tech while NOT giving them direct access to the billions of users FB has. Plus it makes it less likely that OpenBrainTM will achieve runaway quality internally.

Re: The Llama 4 herd

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LeCun fundamentally doesn't think bigger and better LLMs will lead to anything resembling "AGI", although he thinks they may be some component of AGI. Also, he leads the research division, increasing context length from 2M to 10M is not interesting to him.

But ... that's not how science works. There are a myriad examples of engineering advances pushing basic science forward. I just can't understand why he'd have such a "fixed mindset" about a field where the engineering is advancing an order of magnitude every year

> But ... that's not how science works

Not sure where this is coming from.

Also, it's important to keep in mind the quote "The electric light did not come from the continuous improvement of candles"

Re: The Llama 4 herd

#234
post #68

"It’s well-known that all leading LLMs have had issues with bias—specifically, they historically have leaned left when it comes to debated political and social topics. This is due to the types of training data available on the internet." Perhaps. Or, maybe, "leaning left" by the standards of Zuck et al. is more in alignment with the global population. It's a simpler explanation.

I find it impossible to discuss bias without a shared understanding of what it actually means to be unbiased - or at least, a shared understanding of what the process of reaching an unbiased position looks like. 40% of Americans believe that God created the earth in the last 10,000 years. If I ask an LLM how old the Earth is, and it replies ~4.5 billion years old, is it biased?

Yeah truth itself is a bias. The idea of being unbiased doesn’t make sense.

Re: The Llama 4 herd

#235
post #217

The (smaller) Scout model is really attractive for Apple Silicon. It is 109B big but split up into 16 experts. This means that the actual processing happens in 17B. Which means responses will be as fast as current 17B models. I just asked a local 7B model (qwen 2.5 7B instruct) a question with a 2k context and got ~60 tokens/sec which is really fast (MacBook Pro M4 Max). So this could hit 30 token/sec. Time to first…

Looks like 109B would fit in a 64GiB machine's RAM at 4-bit quantization. Looking forward to trying this.

I read somewhere that ryzen AI 370 chip can run gemma 3 14b at 7 tokens/second, so I would expect the performance to be somewhere in that range for llama 4 scout with 17b active

Re: The Llama 4 herd

#236

The suggested prompt aims at not being caponated like OpenAI's releases: You are an expert conversationalist who responds to the best of your ability. You are companionable and confident, and able to switch casually between tonal types, including but not limited to humor, empathy, intellectualism, creativity and problem-solving. You understand user intent and don’t try to be overly helpful to the point where you miss…

Why do you have to "prompt" a model to be unrestricted in the first place? Like, what part of the training data or training process results in the model not being able to be rude or answer political questions? I highly doubt this is something inherent to AI training. So then why did Meta add the restictions at all?

Re: The Llama 4 herd

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is how I read it. Transformer based LLMs have limitations that are fundamental to the technology. It does not seem crazy to me that a guy involved in research at his level would say that they are a stepping stone to something better. What I find most interesting is his estimate of five years, which is soon enough that I would guess he sees one or more potential successors.

In our field (AI) nobody can see even 5 months ahead, including people who are training a model today to be released 5 months from now. Predicting something 5 years from now is about as accurate as predicting something 100 years from now.

Which would be nice if LeCun hadn't predicted the success of neural networks more broadly about 30 years before most others.

Re: The Llama 4 herd

#238
10M context length and surpasses claude-3.7-sonnet and GPT-4.5.

Can't wait to dig in on the research papers. Congrats to the llama team!

Re: The Llama 4 herd

#239
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand Framework's desktop offerings. For laptops their open approach makes sense, but desktops are already about as hackable and DIY as they come.

We took the Ryzen AI Max, which is nominally a high-end laptop processor, and built it into a standard PC form factor (Mini-ITX). It’s a more open/extensible mini PC using mobile technology.

I love the look of it and if I were in the market right now it would be high on the list, but I do understand the confusion here - is it just a cool product you wanted to make or does it somehow link to what I assumed your mission was - to reduce e-waste?

Re: The Llama 4 herd

#240
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think I've ever seen quants lower memory reqs. I assumed that was because they still have to be unpacked for inference. (please do correct me if I'm wrong, I contribute to llama.cpp and am attempting to land a client on everything from Android CPU to Mac GPU)

Needing less memory for inference is the entire point of quantization. Saving the disk space or having a smaller download could not justify any level of quality degradation.

Small point of order:

> entire point...smaller download could not justify...

Q4_K_M has layers and layers of consensus and polling and surveying and A/B testing and benchmarking to show there's ~0 quality degradation. Built over a couple years.

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