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Interview Coder is an invisible AI for technical interviews

interviewcoder.co

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Re: Interview Coder is an invisible AI for technical interviews

#91

Post by sbuttgereit »

bilsbie wrote: post #74
sbuttgereit wrote: post #6

So, am I missing something? Is this just a tool allowing job candidates to commit fraud? I'm no lawyer, so I'm not sure this would rise to the level of actual legal fraud, but moral fraud at the very least is what I think I'm seeing. EDIT: Now I see it at the bottom of the page... "Interview Coder is a desktop app designed to help job seekers ace technical interviews by providing real-time assistance with coding ques…

Is it fraud when they tell you you’ll spend most of your time coding cool new products but then you mostly do customer support and meetings?

Intentional misrepresentation by any party is exactly that: a fraud. Morally at the least and possibly legally if the circumstances meet the legal standard.

The important thing is that such judgement doesn't depend on the integrity of the other party: the act stands on its own, independent of the intentions of the other party.

Re: Interview Coder is an invisible AI for technical interviews

#92

Post by therealpygon »

gcp123 wrote: post #22

I've spent the last decade watching this arms race between interviewers and candidates. Last month I hired a senior dev who couldn't implement a basic database migration when we brought him on but aced our interview problems. Turned out he'd been using tools like this. The problem isn't the tools - they're inevitable. The problem is that our industry clings to this bizarre ritual where we test for skills that are com…

That trend was always comical to me. I’ve never been one to memorize documentation, specific function call orders, etc, and I remember miserably failing a coding test for Comcast. The test? Write a full contact management application on an isolated computer, no IDE, using notepad and no installed runtime.

You’re spot on with the uselessness of modern algorithmic questions. We live in a world of high level languages; in 20+ years, I’ve never implemented a single one of those coding problems in an actual codebase. I would prefer to hire an intelligent, sociable person with core skills and who has room to learn and grow, rather than someone who can ace silly algorithms but can’t work with a team or complex codebase.

Heck, the person you refer to having hired, and presumably fired, may not have even used these tools. The trend these days is to learn to the coding tests from sites we all know about, not the ideas or concepts needed to work in a real team on a real application. They spend all their time writing algorithms, but often never actually touch a database/write a real complex application. The bootcamp explosion was a self-escalating problem for algorithm-based test questions.

Re: Interview Coder is an invisible AI for technical interviews

#93

Post by [deleted] »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #76
tempodox wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong, but you're overlooking the cultural normalcy. When you have something to sell, you're allowed to lie until you're blue in the face and nobody even blinks. But when applicants merely demonstrate how well they understood and internalized that state of affairs, it's fraud. None of this is OK in my book but it's hypocritical to single out job applicants when the whole culture is like that.

1. That still doesn't make it okay. 2. No, you're not allowed to lie until blue in the face when selling; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_advertising is illegal. (Is it underunforced? Probably. Do I wish those laws had much stronger restrictions and harsher penalties? Yep. But is it illegal to lie to sell things? Still yes.) (IANAL and this isn't legal advice. Though it is moral advice.)

[deleted]

Re: Interview Coder is an invisible AI for technical interviews

#95

Post by sys_64738 »

sbuttgereit wrote: post #54
iamdbtoo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe it's defensive against an industry who has developed ridiculous hiring practices.

No: it's a fraud be that legal or moral. If you want a job that someone is offering and they ask you for irrational, unreasonable, or just stupid demonstrations as a prerequisite for getting hired, you have one choice: decide for yourself the show isn't worth the price of admission and walk away... or you do the irrational, unreasonable, or just stupid thing asked to the best of your ability and keep your hat in the…

Everybody cheats and lies about things. Those that say they don't, well I give you a liar.

Re: Interview Coder is an invisible AI for technical interviews

#96

Post by MOARDONGZPLZ »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #30
MOARDONGZPLZ wrote: post #15

This is why we have moved all interview loops to in-person. I highly recommend everyone who is a hiring manager do 100% of their loops in person. Granted, the coding section isn't 100% of the interview, but it's very important.

Does “in-person” mean flying in the candidate, and performing the interview on-site? Does “100% of their loops” mean everything after the initial contact? I suspect smaller companies could find this challenging. I’m old enough to remember when independent recruiters acted almost like “talent agents,” with large payouts. This encouraged them to curate a “personal brand,” and they would often do a lot of the vetting, t…

In person means everything past the initial tech / recruiter screen, which is a very low bar just to see if we think it’s worth flying them out. The alternative is you will hire people and you can’t know if they fraudulently interviewed using things like the tools above, or even if the person who interviewed is the same person who applied and will show up on day one.

For smaller companies in particular the above can be catastrophic, so I recommend they adapt to changing times.

Re: Interview Coder is an invisible AI for technical interviews

#97

Post by JackFr »

sys_64738 wrote: post #95
sbuttgereit wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No: it's a fraud be that legal or moral. If you want a job that someone is offering and they ask you for irrational, unreasonable, or just stupid demonstrations as a prerequisite for getting hired, you have one choice: decide for yourself the show isn't worth the price of admission and walk away... or you do the irrational, unreasonable, or just stupid thing asked to the best of your ability and keep your hat in the…

Everybody cheats and lies about things. Those that say they don't, well I give you a liar.

People who lie and cheat often justify themselves by asserting that everyone does. It’s easier than admitting you’re a liar and a cheat and changing your ways.

Re: Interview Coder is an invisible AI for technical interviews

#98

Post by JackFr »

tempodox wrote: post #69
sbuttgereit wrote: post #6

So, am I missing something? Is this just a tool allowing job candidates to commit fraud? I'm no lawyer, so I'm not sure this would rise to the level of actual legal fraud, but moral fraud at the very least is what I think I'm seeing. EDIT: Now I see it at the bottom of the page... "Interview Coder is a desktop app designed to help job seekers ace technical interviews by providing real-time assistance with coding ques…

You're not wrong, but you're overlooking the cultural normalcy. When you have something to sell, you're allowed to lie until you're blue in the face and nobody even blinks. But when applicants merely demonstrate how well they understood and internalized that state of affairs, it's fraud. None of this is OK in my book but it's hypocritical to single out job applicants when the whole culture is like that.

It’s really simple. Don't lie or cheat and don’t abide those who do.

As a software development manager, I find the most important quality I need in my direct reports is honesty. If you are not honest with me it makes it very difficult to do my job.

That some developers have been conditioned to dishonesty is a shame on our industry.

Re: Interview Coder is an invisible AI for technical interviews

#99

Post by alistairSH »

esafak wrote: post #82
alistairSH wrote: post #51

If the problems are tailored to the role and the job requirements can be completed using AI, isn’t this sort of the correct outcome? If you have job requirements that extend beyond “trivially completable with AI” ask questions that aren’t trivially completable with AI.

The role invariably involves things the candidates don't know coming in. Otherwise we'd be filtering candidates based on familiarity with specific technologies, which is bad for everyone. That's the purpose of these algorithmic questions; they are a generic test of competency.

Are they? Most people will end up using Google or AI or whatever other tool is available to do the job. The tests aren’t for for purpose and that’s the root of the problem, IMO.

Re: Interview Coder is an invisible AI for technical interviews

#100

Post by cake-rusk »

sbuttgereit wrote: post #6

So, am I missing something? Is this just a tool allowing job candidates to commit fraud? I'm no lawyer, so I'm not sure this would rise to the level of actual legal fraud, but moral fraud at the very least is what I think I'm seeing. EDIT: Now I see it at the bottom of the page... "Interview Coder is a desktop app designed to help job seekers ace technical interviews by providing real-time assistance with coding ques…

It is okay to cheat when the game is rigged. At least this is what star trek has taught me (Kobayashi Maru).
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