Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A university president makes a case against cowardice

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

831–840 of 934 posts

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#831

Post by thyristan »

jacooper wrote: post #803
thyristan wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, when it comes to conflating, I'll take your calling Israel a terror state as a standard: The democratically elected government of Gaza-Palestine is the Hamas, which is a terrorist organisation. Thus by your conflation regarding Israel to be a terror state, the Gaza strip part of Palestine is as well. Its population chose a known terrorist organisation, everything is run by a terrorist organisation, they did ter…

It literally doesn't matter. What Hamas did or does, doesn't give any right to Israel to ethnically cleanse, forcibly displace, massacre 100+ people every day and commit a genocide in Gaza. 100 people, most of them kids! These are people with lives, families, hope and compassion. Just imagine if the Ukrainian war came even close to this. People are not numbers. And these are WARCRIMES, the entire global system was bu…

As we are currently seeing in international relations, the "international rule based order" needs someone to impose order, otherwise it won't work. Putin called the bluff and he seems to win that hand.

So as in all the other areas of life, rules are for the small, puny ones, not for the big or well-connected ones. If you are big or have big supporters, might makes right. Morals and rules are then only relevant for propaganda, not for actual behavior

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#832

Post by thyristan »

megous wrote: post #783
thyristan wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Non-citizens in Germany have no free speech rights period. You get banned and deported even for making lectures about unfavorable topics, as it seems. No, the right to utter your opinion in Germany applies to everyone, not only Germans. The constitution has two categories of people, Germans and Everyone, some rights apply only to Germans, some to Everyone. The right to assembly and public protests is one just for G…

Several counterexamples recently: https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/video-donald-trump-germany-cr... 22:20 ("social center raid for a progressive resistance flyer") 26:20 ("hate crimes") 30:25 (shutting down a congress) ...

Those are not counterexamples, you are agreeing with me. There is no such thing as free speech in Germany, only some weaker right. There are laws limiting speech, and actually (as that article seems to complain about) they are applied to citizens and non-citizens equally, meaning that even a Jewish citizen of Israel can be deported from Germany for uttering anti-semitic statemens. Everyone arrested should have known about those laws, they have been there since the founding of the modern german state after WW2.

What I don't know about is the turn of things in the US, US laws didn't include those kinds of crimes and used to protect freedom of speech in a far more comprehensive manner. Things seem to have changed there, I don't know.

Btw. my personal opinion is that Germany should have US-like free speech and that the only limits to free speech should be where someone is directly and immediately put in danger of physical harm by it. (e.g. shouting "Jump!" to a suicidal person on a railing, or shouting "Fire!" in a dense crowd)

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#833

Post by mpweiher »

immibis wrote: post #715
mpweiher wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany considers protests against anything Israel does in Gaza to be support for Hamas This is patently untrue. I live in Berlin and constantly see protests. Far from being too strict, the police are way to lax in enforcing applicable laws. The Jewish community in Berlin is scared, because they feel completely left alone by the authorities. We have people running around freely in effin Berlin , right next to the H…

I live in Berlin, I've visited some protests, I constantly see police arrest people. I visited a camp in front of the Reichstag building. The organizers told me about ridiculous police behaviour. Then I saw some ridiculous police behaviour at that camp. Arrests and intimidation tactics. The police banned speaking any language other than German or English. I saw them take away some people in handcuffs for the crime of…

> The police banned speaking any language other than German or English.

Incorrect. That was a court order, because people were quite obviously subverting the prohibition of calling for genocide by using languages law enforcement does not understand.

> I don't actually know any Jews (or Muslims),

I know both Jews and Muslins: you are incredibly wrong.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#834

Post by [deleted] »

stale2002 wrote: post #755
throwaway389234 wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech in the US is about not having consequences for what you are saying. In particular not having consequences from the government. Therefor you can only say that it is a legitimate consequence if you disregard free speech. Free speech in the US is about being able to be an asshole to 10%, 50% or 90% of the population without having to be responsible for what that part of the population does. And even more so…

> Free speech in the US is about not having consequences for what you are saying. If a mob harasses you, your friends, you family, your workplace and your children with mass amounts of harassment and death threats, I would say that the target of the harassment has had their rights infringed on even though it wasn't literally the government. No, you cannot have a mob send mass death threats to people, stalk them, and…

[deleted]

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#835

Post by throwaway389234 »

stale2002 wrote: post #755
throwaway389234 wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech in the US is about not having consequences for what you are saying. In particular not having consequences from the government. Therefor you can only say that it is a legitimate consequence if you disregard free speech. Free speech in the US is about being able to be an asshole to 10%, 50% or 90% of the population without having to be responsible for what that part of the population does. And even more so…

> Free speech in the US is about not having consequences for what you are saying. If a mob harasses you, your friends, you family, your workplace and your children with mass amounts of harassment and death threats, I would say that the target of the harassment has had their rights infringed on even though it wasn't literally the government. No, you cannot have a mob send mass death threats to people, stalk them, and…

> But, of course, you don't care about that or what happens to people's families when they are targeted.

I made an effort to have a conversation. This breaks the rules of Hacker News by assuming bad faith.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#836

Post by [deleted] »

jacooper wrote: post #799
thefounder wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If that was the case the west bank would at peace, instead it's getting annexed with a pending ethnic cleaning plan. They literally shot ambulances a few days ago on purpose: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/world/middleeast/gaza-isr...

[deleted]

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#837

Post by thefounder »

jacooper wrote: post #799
thefounder wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If that was the case the west bank would at peace, instead it's getting annexed with a pending ethnic cleaning plan. They literally shot ambulances a few days ago on purpose: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/world/middleeast/gaza-isr...

Well Hamas’s massacre didn’t buy Palestine any good will/support, did it? I think the approval rate of Hamas was at historic levels after the massacre so that should tell you about the people in Gaza/Palestine(politically speaking of course)

Now Israel can do whatever they want because “nobody” is going to support what seamed like a terrorist state.

They chose violence and violence they get. It didn’t pay off. Not many people want to get involved into Palestine now. Not even the Arab states.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#838

Post by soulofmischief »

onetimeusename wrote: post #713
soulofmischief wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point, I often use "forefathers" loosely when I really mean just the good forefathers, such as Franklin, Paine, etc. I need to figure out a way to be more precise about this without being too verbose.

The good forefathers? What is the basis for deciding? Like back in 2017 there was the Unite the Right rally on the UVA campus. I am guessing you would not support that kind of anti-Semitic speech and "protest against totalitarian government" although there's not really much difference in speech said at that rally versus the anti-Israel ones at Columbia except by who was saying it. Maybe I am wrong and you are a free…

> What is the basis for deciding?

For one, whether or not they supported abolition.

I also will not engage in a debate with a poisoned premise: To be clear, supporting Israel today means supporting genocide. That is the beginning and end of it. You can denounce Israel and still denounce Hamas. You can support an individual Jewish person's right to life and liberty without making the mistake of supporting their genocidal government.

Given that my own government, the United States, is also genocidal and has a history of bloody colonialism, I appreciate when people can make this distinction. I condemn my own government and still support my fellow countrymen.

None of this needs pointing out. Any attempt to paint an anti-Israel stance as an antisemitic stance is deliberately deceitful and wholly reprehensible. Israel the government is illegitimate and Netanyahu is wanted in the International Criminal Court for genocidal crimes.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#839

Post by jgalt212 »

margalabargala wrote: post #677
skeaker wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being paid what you're owed doesn't necessitate gratitude.

For those who disagree with this, when was the last time you thanked your boss for your paycheck?

But, I bet many have thanked their boss for the opportunity given to them. This statement of gratitude is a tacit acknowledgement of salary.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#840

Post by kubb »

lelanthran wrote: post #436
kubb wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll make it through if they bend the knee. Otherwise the regime will destroy them, and the conclusion will be that it's all because of these darned radical leftists.

> They'll make it through if they bend the knee. Otherwise the regime will destroy them, and the conclusion will be that it's all because of these darned radical leftists. Well, it is , isn't it? They required complete loyalty to the ideology before accepting any faculty: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/us/ucla-dei-statement.htm... They shouldn't have gone that far.

> University of Toronto

I understand you’re fighting for what you believe in. Keep going, you’re almost there.

Post reply on HN