Build an 8-bit computer from scratch (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Build an 8-bit computer from scratch (2016)

#61

Post by mechanicalpulse » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 8:01 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #16

edoceo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yo. It's 2025. We don't need to rage at JS, a little sprinkling is OK. Also, can one do a TCP stack in 8 bits?

a little sprinkling is OK. This isn't progressive enhancement, the page is completley unreadable without running JS. It rather irks me that someone who clearly knows about the basics of computing would do such a thing. Also, can one do a TCP stack in 8 bits? Yes. Lots of low-end IoT devices have an 8-bit MCU. Also, this: https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Contiki

The site was assembled using webpack and at least one element has a `data-react-helmet` attribute, so my guess is it's a React or React derivative such as Next.js. You're right -- it's not progressive enhancement and it's not necessary to present a simple tutorial.

Maybe there are other reasons, though? Maybe Ben wanted to learn the framework? Maybe Ben wanted to integrate a storefront and a comment section -- which he has done via Shopify and Disqus -- and his choice of framework made that easy due to the existence of official React libraries from both vendors? Maybe Ben's using cloud-native serverless deployment tools alongside his React application because some of the derivative frameworks like Next.js do really well at minifying, compressing, caching, and serving only the content that's needed?

I can understand the purist argument -- I really can, especially from a security standpoint given what we've learned in the past few years about cache-timing side-channel attacks -- but is it possible that Ben is simply a fan of learning and he's as excited about building a web application in React as he is about building an 8-bit computer from scratch?

Re: Build an 8-bit computer from scratch (2016)

#62

Post by ziddoap » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 8:23 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #56

rs186 wrote: post #13

I did the whole thing, was able to get the Fibonacci numbers appear and learned a lot during the process. However, I would not recommend other people to try this today, because -- * It is not necessarily the best way to spend your time and money. You'll be looking at tens of hours on building it plus over $300 in parts, for a very slow and basic computer that you probably will forget and throw away at some point. Cut…

> tens of hours on building it plus over $300 in parts In other words, quite inexpensive.

To you, sure. To others, maybe not. Whether something is expensive (in money or time) is relative.

Re: Build an 8-bit computer from scratch (2016)

#63

Post by apricot » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 8:26 PM UTC

brucehoult wrote: post #10

apricot wrote: post #6

Ben Eater's breadboard CPU is a good way to learn the basics, but since the focus is pedagogical, it's very underpowered for the quantity of chips it uses (and you better enjoy forming wires). For a much more powerful computer built around the same number of TTL chips, see the Gigatron.

And no microprocessor! But as I understand it the kits are no longer available :-(

Sadly, Marcel van Kervinck (one of the two creators of the Gigatron) passed away in 2020. You can still buy PCBs on Tindie, and the parts are easy to procure, it's all standard 74HCT chips. You can find a detailed bill of materials on gigatron.io, and the PCB files are there as well.

The one unavailable part is the fancy wooden box.

Re: Build an 8-bit computer from scratch (2016)

#64

Post by justin66 » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 8:41 PM UTC

ziddoap wrote: post #62

justin66 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tens of hours on building it plus over $300 in parts In other words, quite inexpensive.

To you, sure. To others, maybe not. Whether something is expensive (in money or time) is relative.

Relative to other hands on, high tech educational experiences would be a smart way to think about it, if you insist on adopting the sucks in a long hit of marijuana smoke “everything is just relative, mannnnn” attitude.

Re: Build an 8-bit computer from scratch (2016)

#65

Post by codedokode » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:33 PM UTC

Just wanted to add that there is "a homebrew computer ring" project [1] and you will be surprised how many ideas for DIY computers you can find there.

(I also made a two-breadboard CPU with ~5 instructions myself but had yet no time to finish the software)

[1] https://www.homebrewcpuring.org/

Re: Build an 8-bit computer from scratch (2016)

#66

Post by rs186 » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:36 PM UTC

dowager_dan99 wrote: post #57

rs186 wrote: post #13

I did the whole thing, was able to get the Fibonacci numbers appear and learned a lot during the process. However, I would not recommend other people to try this today, because -- * It is not necessarily the best way to spend your time and money. You'll be looking at tens of hours on building it plus over $300 in parts, for a very slow and basic computer that you probably will forget and throw away at some point. Cut…

Pretty strong disagree with your take (though seems like you end with "this is a bad path with no viable alternatives"?). Laying out the breadboards and wiring this has frustrations but that's part of the experience. Same with the design choices; one of the most valuable things my most-digital of minds learned was that you can never escape the analog world completely. I don't think you should be looking for cheap and…

You are free to disagree. The project took me way longer than I expected, and while it (building the whole thing) was fun, the experience barely helped deepen my knowledge of electronics or computers -- the videos themselves were already very educational. I wouldn't have done it if I had a better idea of what I was getting into, but anyone can make a different choice if they value their time and money differently.

Re: Build an 8-bit computer from scratch (2016)

#67

Post by codedokode » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:58 PM UTC

rs186 wrote: post #13

I did the whole thing, was able to get the Fibonacci numbers appear and learned a lot during the process. However, I would not recommend other people to try this today, because -- * It is not necessarily the best way to spend your time and money. You'll be looking at tens of hours on building it plus over $300 in parts, for a very slow and basic computer that you probably will forget and throw away at some point. Cut…

$300 is somewhat inflated estimate - for example, the breadboard's price is estimated as $4-$9 but I usually buy breadboards at $1.5 each (well, there is a warning that they might be worse quality but I am not used to expensive breadboards so don't notice any issues and I don't care if they are slightly different shade of white).

Re: Build an 8-bit computer from scratch (2016)

#68

Post by brucehoult » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 10:49 PM UTC

ninalanyon wrote: post #52

brucehoult wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MOS 6532 RAM-I/O-Timer chip used by the 2600 (and KIM-1 and others) has 128 bytes of RAM. Game cartridges could add 256 bytes more, along with the program ROM. For an experience today closer to these machines, you can get a $0.10 CH32V003 microcontroller with 2k RAM and 16k flash. Here's a 1 Euro retro-computer kit using one that has included in that price support for PS/2 keyboard and VGA video output, all inclu…

That's astonishing. They must make a loss on every one they sell. I bet they don't sell many though, they want 21 EUR to send it to Norway!

Oh! I expected it to be cheaper shipping within Europe. I live on completely the other side of the world (antipodes of Spain or Casablanca to be precise)and it was a similar price. I took 18, which doubled the overall cost compared to getting just 1 (shipping was 30.92 EUR).