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A university president makes a case against cowardice

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Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#561

Post by taeric »

disambiguation wrote: post #529
taeric wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they been failing at their core missions, though? You say there has been an inversion/disconnect between cost of tuition and economic outcomes, but looking at the data doesn't back that. At least, I have yet to see anything that supports an inversion. Diminished returns maybe. Certainly a good case to not take out loans to get into school if you don't have a reasonable chance of graduation. But that is true of e…

Tuition is skyrocketing and wages are stagnant. I'm not making a hard claim about inversion of ROI, but I don't need to. What's the reason for college becoming so expensive?

You claim it is inverted. That is a hard claim, full stop. One that is, notably, not supported by any figures.

I can largely agree that it, similar to other things, has become too expensive. I cannot agree that it is not worth it for folks that can do it.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#562

Post by turtlesdown11 »

necubi wrote: post #213

Oh hey, Wesleyan on HN! I’m an alumnus (matriculated a year or two after Roth became president). Wesleyan has a rich history of activism and protest, and not always entirely peaceful (Roth’s predecessor, Doug Bennet, had his office firebombed at one point). I’ve had a few opportunities to speak with Roth since the Gaza war started, and I’ve always found him particularly thoughtful about balancing freedom of expressio…

ah, some both sides claims while people are disappeared

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#563

Post by sigmar »

jgalt212 wrote: post #547
low_tech_love wrote: post #425

Some personal highlights: "They’re excellent schools, and they have excellent scientists, and if one of Vice-President Vance’s kids is sick, he’s going to want the doctor to have gone to one of these schools; he’s not going to want them to have gone to Viktor Orbán’s university." "People have said to me, “Well, you take all that money from the government, why don’t you listen to them?” The answer is, because the mone…

> The answer is, because the money doesn’t come with a loyalty oath But it does come with some reasonable level of consideration and appreciation.

You don't know how they feel, so what you're saying is "they have to show/express appreciation," which is synonymous with a loyalty oath.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#564

Post by xdavidliu »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #410
rtkwe wrote: post #405

Harvard's rolling over was particularly annoying, they have a 52 billion dollar endowment! If any university could afford to make a stand and lose funding over it it's Harvard. What's the point of this massive pile of money if you never dip into it in exceptional circumstances?

Harvard is a hedge fund that happens to do some education and research as a tax-advantaged side gig.

who gets to withdraw that money?

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#565

Post by dfxm12 »

jgalt212 wrote: post #547
low_tech_love wrote: post #425

Some personal highlights: "They’re excellent schools, and they have excellent scientists, and if one of Vice-President Vance’s kids is sick, he’s going to want the doctor to have gone to one of these schools; he’s not going to want them to have gone to Viktor Orbán’s university." "People have said to me, “Well, you take all that money from the government, why don’t you listen to them?” The answer is, because the mone…

> The answer is, because the money doesn’t come with a loyalty oath But it does come with some reasonable level of consideration and appreciation.

Why do you think this?

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#566

Post by saalweachter »

lelanthran wrote: post #439
kevingadd wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> That's because the extent of the illiberal behavior of the radical left was yelling and "cancel culture" while the present behavior of the illiberal right is abductions and overseas slave camps. You can see why people might find having the two equated a little ridiculous, right? You are correct - one is objectively worse than the other. The unfortunate truth is that, also, one is a consequence of the other. Trump i…

Eh, you can prove anything but starting history at a particular point.

For instance, "GamerGate", where a bunch of anonymous people on the internet tried to get a number of women in the game industry fired, predates "cancel culture" by a year or two.

Or how the whole #MeToo movement was, you know, a response to powerful people abusing people in their power, and firing or otherwise limiting their careers if they resisted.

If didn't want to be "canceled", well, he could have always just not sexually harassed his underlings.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#567

Post by disambiguation »

eszed wrote: post #461
joe5150 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "gorging themselves on endowments" even mean? If they did that, they wouldn't be very endowed in quick order.

Charitably, they may mean "the proceeds from their endowments" (or maybe "engorging their endowments", if that's even a proper use of the word), but I think that's a weak point. Proportionally very, very few institutions have significant endowments.

You're both wrong. I'm saying they're engorged AND well endowed. Many consider this a strong point.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#568

Post by nickff »

geonineties wrote: post #290
nickff wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to resort to Constitutional arguments, you shouldn't gloss over the fact that the federal government is supposed to be one of enumerated powers, and there's no 'bribing universities to do what you want' federal power.

Unfortunately, that's not true. Article 1 gives congress very broad budgetary powers. Basically congress can spend money how they want, including bribing universities.

It depends on your understanding of Article 1 Section 8:

>"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

What does "general Welfare" mean in this context? Are those words just meaningless filler, or should they be interpreted to indicate that the spending must be in furtherance of another specifically enumerated power? I believe the latter (Madisonian take), but this is a contentious subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxing_and_Spending_Clause#Gen...

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#569

Post by saalweachter »

soulofmischief wrote: post #478
somedude895 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a guest, act like a guest. Anti-Israel protests are by extension a protest against the US foreign policy, so yeah... You protest your host in a violent and disruptive manner, you probably shouldn't have been allowed in to begin with.

Not in my America. I welcome any and all persons from anywhere in the world if they want to come and protest the American war machine Our forefathers would be absolutely ashamed at what you just said. Protesting a totalitarian government that lacks proper representation is the most American thing you can possibly do, and that makes these immigrants more American than you will ever be, as long as you hold such views.…

> Our forefathers would be absolutely ashamed...

Well, like half of our forefathers. Maybe 30%.

America has always been this weird combined project of Hopeless Idealists and The Worst People In The World. Our forefathers sought independence for freedom and self-determination and all sorts of other noble things, but also because many of them owned a bunch of slaves and were worried that was going to be outlawed in the near future. And then sought independence again a century later out of the same fear.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#570

Post by viccis »

bko wrote: post #525
mapt wrote: post #475

Columbia has an endowment that stands (pre- Liberation Day) at 15 billion dollars. They kowtowed to some of the militant Zionist interests involved in that endowment in order to attain a fractionally higher return, and betrayed their students. They kowtowed to the fascist administration on the grounds that it was threatening 400 million dollars in grants, and betrayed their students to the point of facilitating a pro…

[flagged]

>Do you think calling for the genocide of Jews

I'm guessing the motte associated with this particular bailey won't be nearly as clear in its violation of such codes.

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