A university president makes a case against cowardice • Hacker News Board

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#371

Post by milesrout » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:30 AM UTC

hayst4ck wrote: post #293

America has done an absolutely terrible job of teaching people about rights. If governments granted rights then they would be privileges not rights. In western tradition governments exist to protect rights, such as the freedom of expression, not to grant them. If you believe these are human rights, rather than your privilege as an American, then you must protect their rights to seek justice too. People are already be…

What a strange view. America has done a poor job of teaching you about rights. They are legal only - natural law (the proper name for the doctrine of so-called "human rights") is religion. God-given rights you may have but rights in law they are not.

The rule of law is crucial to a free, just, and good society but you conflate the rule of law with the law saying what you would have it say. If the law is changed or the powers given under law are used in a way you do not like then that is not unlawful.

Dictators vary in how much they rely on law. Some have used law to do their evil: take Hitler. Some do their evil outside the law. This tells us that in truth the rule of law is but one part of what we need to have a good society.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#372

Post by milesrout » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:34 AM UTC

hayst4ck wrote: post #352

lurk2 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The core founding principle of western society is solidarity via collective bargaining What is the basis of that assertion? If you go back as far as the Greeks, this only holds true if you focus on one specific city-state, and ignore that said city-state disenfranchised foreigners and legally permitted the ownership of slaves. Similar problems occur if we attribute western civilization to the Romans.

I am far from a historian, but my understanding is that the protestant reformation birthed the enlightenment by shifting people's idea of god as something to be interpreted by an authority structure (the church) to something that is interpreted internally. Is your relationship with god mediated by a church or a direct relationship with god? The reformation is more closely related to "westenrism" than the Greeks or Ro…

It is not collective bargaining. You refer to the social contract.

The idea of the social contract has issues. For one, the fundamental of contract is consent, which is missing.

Realism tells us that we do not delegate anything to the state.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#373

Post by milesrout » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:39 AM UTC

hausrat wrote: post #369

rayiner wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was the progressive push of theoretically neutral institutions taking stands on moral politics. People who were fine with universities being staffed with liberals, but neutral in practice, realized their tax dollars were subsidizing institutions that were actively taking a side in national politics. For example, universities burned a lot of political capital, and opened themselves up to a great deal of legal liabi…

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Yes you are right. They shouldn't be researching how to racially discriminate at all. They should be focused exclusively on researching effective mass deportation instead of DEI.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#374

Post by milesrout » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:40 AM UTC

archagon wrote: post #333

rayiner wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was the progressive push of theoretically neutral institutions taking stands on moral politics. People who were fine with universities being staffed with liberals, but neutral in practice, realized their tax dollars were subsidizing institutions that were actively taking a side in national politics. For example, universities burned a lot of political capital, and opened themselves up to a great deal of legal liabi…

Sure, and why not open an Institute of Enhanced Interrogation Studies while you’re at it? Ugh.

Because torturing people is illegal and contrary to our fundamental values, while deporting illegal immigrants is a very popular and sensible policy that is uncontroversial everywhere except the United States of Exceptionalism.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#375

Post by milesrout » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:43 AM UTC

xracy wrote: post #300

gedy wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly man since the fall of the Berlin Wall, the left in the US threw their whole weight into pushing the Overton window on identity politics/intersectionality to the point that "real" old time leftists and communists (like my father) were treated like some sort of conservatives, lol. They went way past the sustainable point.

I feel like the people who say things like "communists were treated like some sort of conservatives because of identity politics" are telling on themselves. If you look at the people on the actual political left in the US (Bernie, AOC, etc) are they talking about identity politics? Last time I checked they were talking about the problems that impact non-billionaire Americans: Healthcare, Social Security, Raising Mini…

They talk about identity politics all the time. It is us vs them on everything. Worker vs employer is the quintessential example. Two groups that in the real world must work together, and do. But in the mind of the political left they are not just people that occasionally have adverse interests but mostly shared interests (my success is yours). No, they are sworn enemies.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#376

Post by breppp » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:47 AM UTC

sussmannbaka wrote: post #334

nomonnai wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an equation in what it does to people. Yes, abduction is worse than being yelled at. However, it's pointing out that the general principle has been established: "People whose opinion I don't like can be banned from society." At first, it's only removing individuals from public discourse (cancel culture), then it's removing people physically (deportation). This is always the endgame of eroding core liberal va…

First it’s people disagreeing with me, then it’s deportation to the death camps. There is zero nuance and the slippery slope is basically guaranteed so I should have freedom of consequence for everything I do!

talk about zero nuance, people here started comparing to concentration camps, and now you are at death camps

just a quick reminder, the ghettos which had far better living conditions than concentration camps (not death camps), had people living on 180 calories a day and ended with more than a half a million dead

so please, proportions, this is an insult to history

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#377

Post by sjsdaiuasgdia » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:53 AM UTC

foldr wrote: post #364

emptysongglass wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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How many of the conservatives complaining about it would support government regulations preventing people from being fired for expressing controversial viewpoints? AFAIK those complaining are the same people who support ‘at will’ employment and the liberty of religious organizations to impose more or less arbitrarily discriminatory hiring standards. So yeah, in that lax regulatory environment, your employer might dec…

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Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#378

Post by sjsdaiuasgdia » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:54 AM UTC

exoverito wrote: post #205

sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government never prevented anyone from speaking. Free speech was not violated when assholes were banned from platforms for being assholes. The owners of those platforms are not the government. https://leftycartoons.com/2018/08/01/i-have-been-silenced/

Read the Twitter files. The government was actively involved in censorship. Zuckerberg has also stated the FBI was demanding certain posts be removed / demoted, users shadow banned, etc. The CIA also infiltrates and subverts many organizations and platforms. Wouldn't be surprised if they operate here, they've definitely been manipulating Reddit for at least the past decade.

You mean the Twitter files, which relied on Matt Taibbi getting the name of a government agency wrong to form the key connection he then turned into a conspiracy?

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#379

Post by adhamsalama » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:57 AM UTC

nl wrote: post #284

mlindner wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Who is supporting terrorist groups? Pro-Palestinian protesting is not support for terrorism.

Nothing in that article implies supporting terrorism. They support Palestine.

People conflating supporting Palestine with supporting terrorism should be ashamed of themselves, as Israel is the biggest terror state in the world.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#380

Post by adhamsalama » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 9:58 AM UTC

mlindner wrote: post #275

necubi wrote: post #213

Oh hey, Wesleyan on HN! I’m an alumnus (matriculated a year or two after Roth became president). Wesleyan has a rich history of activism and protest, and not always entirely peaceful (Roth’s predecessor, Doug Bennet, had his office firebombed at one point). I’ve had a few opportunities to speak with Roth since the Gaza war started, and I’ve always found him particularly thoughtful about balancing freedom of expressio…

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Supporting Palestinians that Israel has been killing for over a year (+50k killed, most were women and children), while starving the rest and ethnically cleansing them, is not supporting terrorism.