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Senior Developer Skills in the AI Age

manuel.kiessling.net

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Re: Senior Developer Skills in the AI Age

#191

Post by rotis »

gerdesj wrote: post #71
necovek wrote: post #9

The premise might possibly be true, but as an actually seasoned Python developer, I've taken a look at one file: https://github.com/dx-tooling/platform-problem-monitoring-co... All of it smells of a (lousy) junior software engineer: from configuring root logger at the top, module level (which relies on module import caching not to be reapplied), over not using a stdlib config file parser and building one themselves,…

My current favourite LLM wankery example is this beauty: https://blog.fahadusman.com/proxmox-replacing-failed-drive-i... Note how it has invented the faster parameter for the zpool command. It is possible that the blog writer hallucinated a faster parameter themselves without needing a LLM - who knows. I think all developers should add a faster parameter to all commands to make them run faster. Perhaps a LLM could cr…

How can this article be written by LLM? Its date is November 2021. Not judging the article as a whole but the command you pointed out seems to be correct. Faster is the name of the pool.

Re: Senior Developer Skills in the AI Age

#192

Post by isoprophlex »

abid786 wrote: post #86
necovek wrote: post #9

The premise might possibly be true, but as an actually seasoned Python developer, I've taken a look at one file: https://github.com/dx-tooling/platform-problem-monitoring-co... All of it smells of a (lousy) junior software engineer: from configuring root logger at the top, module level (which relies on module import caching not to be reapplied), over not using a stdlib config file parser and building one themselves,…

Doesn’t load_json throw if the file doesn’t exist?

Yes but then why do the check in the first place

Re: Senior Developer Skills in the AI Age

#193

Post by XorNot »

dheera wrote: post #158
mjr00 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the code works, passes all relevant tests, is reasonably maintainable, and can be fitted into the system correctly with a well defined interface, does it really matter? You're not wrong here, but there's a big difference in programming one-off tooling or prototype MVPs and programming things that need to be maintained for years and years. We did this song and dance pretty recently with dynamic typing. Developers…

> You're not wrong here, but there's a big difference in programming one-off tooling or prototype MVPs and programming things that need to be maintained for years and years. Humans also worry about their jobs, especially in PIP-happy companies; they are very well known for writing intentionally over-complicated code that only they understand so that they are irreplaceable

I'm not convinced this actually happens. Seems more like somthing people assume happens because they don't like whatever codebase is at the new job.

Re: Senior Developer Skills in the AI Age

#194

Post by nottorp »

wesselbindt wrote: post #190
lolinder wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in my experience "me 3 months later" counts as a whole second developer that needs accommodating. The only time I appreciate not having to think about types is on code that I know I will never, ever come back to—stuff like a one off bash script.

> "me 3 months later" counts as a whole second developer A fairly incompetent one, in my experience. And don't even get me started on "me 3 months ago", that guy's even worse.

"How has that shit ever worked?"

Me, looking at code 100% written by me last year.

Re: Senior Developer Skills in the AI Age

#195

Post by dheera »

XorNot wrote: post #193
dheera wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're not wrong here, but there's a big difference in programming one-off tooling or prototype MVPs and programming things that need to be maintained for years and years. Humans also worry about their jobs, especially in PIP-happy companies; they are very well known for writing intentionally over-complicated code that only they understand so that they are irreplaceable

I'm not convinced this actually happens. Seems more like somthing people assume happens because they don't like whatever codebase is at the new job.

Oh, I'm convinced, I've seen it first hand.

Re: Senior Developer Skills in the AI Age

#196

Post by hjnilsson »

jjice wrote: post #182
johnfn wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all code needs to be written at a high level of quality. A good deal of code just needs to work. Shell scripts, one-offs, linter rules, etc.

You’re objectively correct in a business context, which is what most software is for. For me, seeing AI slop code more and more is just sad from a craft perspective. Software that’s well designed and architected is a pleasure to read and write, even if a lower quality version would get the job done. I’m watching one of the things I love most in the world become more automated and having the craftsmanship stripped out…

It’s probably the same way monks copying books felt when the printing press came along. “Look at this mechanical, low-quality copy. It lacks all finesse and flourish of the pen!”

I agree with you that it is sad. And what is especially sad is that the result will probably be lower quality overall, but much cheaper. It’s the inevitable result of automation.

Re: Senior Developer Skills in the AI Age

#197

Post by victorbjorklund »

rotis wrote: post #191
gerdesj wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current favourite LLM wankery example is this beauty: https://blog.fahadusman.com/proxmox-replacing-failed-drive-i... Note how it has invented the faster parameter for the zpool command. It is possible that the blog writer hallucinated a faster parameter themselves without needing a LLM - who knows. I think all developers should add a faster parameter to all commands to make them run faster. Perhaps a LLM could cr…

How can this article be written by LLM? Its date is November 2021. Not judging the article as a whole but the command you pointed out seems to be correct. Faster is the name of the pool.

I used LLM:s for content generation in july 2021. Of course that was when LLM:s were pretty bad.

Re: Senior Developer Skills in the AI Age

#198

Post by atemerev »

skydhash wrote: post #54
atemerev wrote: post #42

This is excellent, and matches my experience. Those lamenting the loss of manual programming: we are free to hone our skills on personal projects, but for corporate/consulting work, you cannot ignore 5x speed advantage. It's over. AI-assisted coding won.

Is it really 5x? I'm more surprised about 25+ years of experience, and being hard pressed to learn enough python to code the project. It's not like he's learning programming again, or being recently exposed to OOP. Especially when you can find working code samples about the subproblems in the project.

It is 5x if you are already a senior SE knowing your programming language really well, constantly suggesting good architecture yourself ("seed files" is a brilliant idea), and not accepting any slop / asking to rewrite things if something is not up to your standards (of course, every piece of code should be reviewed).

Otherwise, it can be 0.2x in some cases. And you should not use LLMs for anything security-related unless you are a security expert, otherwise you are screwed.

(this is SOTA as of April 2025, I expect things to become better in the near future)

Re: Senior Developer Skills in the AI Age

#199

Post by theshrike79 »

carpo wrote: post #63
conductr wrote: post #37

As a long time hobby coder, like 25 years and I think I’m pretty good(?), this whole LLM /vibecoding thing has zapped my creativity the past year or so. I like the craft of making things. I used tools I enjoy working with and learn new ones all the time (never got on the JS/react train). Sometimes I have an entrepreneur bug and want to create a marketable solution, but I often just like to build. Im also the kind of…

I'm the complete opposite. After being burnt out and feeling an almost physical repulsion to starting anything new, using AI has renewed my passion. I've almost finished a side project I started 4 weeks ago and it's been awesome. Used AI from the beginning for a Desktop app with a framework I'd never heard of before and the learning curve is almost non-existent. To be able to get the boring things done in minutes is…

I'm on this boat. I can use LLMs to skip the boring bits like generating API glue classes or simple output functions.

Example:

I'm building a tool to grab my data from different sites like Steam, Imdb, Letterboxd and Goodreads.

I know perfectly well how to write a parser for the Goodreads CSV output, but it doesn't exactly tickle my brain. Cursor or Cline will do it in minutes.

Now I've got some data to work with, which is the fun bit.

Again if I want to format the output to markdown for Obsidian, the LLM can do it in a few minutes and maybe even add stuff I didn't think about at first.

Re: Senior Developer Skills in the AI Age

#200

Post by baq »

nottorp wrote: post #194
wesselbindt wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "me 3 months later" counts as a whole second developer A fairly incompetent one, in my experience. And don't even get me started on "me 3 months ago", that guy's even worse.

"How has that shit ever worked?" Me, looking at code 100% written by me last year.

It gets worse with age and size of the project. I’m getting the same vibes, but for code written by me last month.
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