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An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

theaiunderwriter.substack.com

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Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#321

Post by munificent »

dcow wrote: post #310
munificent wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI democratizes access to pop culture. Pop culture was already democratized. That's literally what makes it popular culture. > So now when I connect with a human it’s not to share memes, it’s higher order. I suspect that improving the image quality of the memes does not measurably improve the quality of the human connection here. > IOW we can spend more time playing D&D because we didn't have to draw our characters…

It's a rhetorical example. Suppose you need to create an avatar of your character. Why does it follow that it's not beneficial to have an AI help generate the avatar? You're responding to the specific example, not the general argument. Unless your counter is that whatever humanity is doing that AI is helping is probably stupid and shouldn't be done anyway.

> Unless your counter is that whatever humanity is doing that AI is helping is probably stupid and shouldn't be done anyway.

No, my counter is that whatever generative AI is doing is worth doing by humans but not worth doing by machines.

As the joke comic says: We thought technology was going to automate running errands so that we had time to make art, but instead it automates making art while we all have to be gig workers running errands.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#322

Post by Lerc »

MgB2 wrote: post #30

Idk, the models generating what are basically 1:1 copies of the training data from pretty generic descriptions feels like a severe case of overfitting to me. What use is a generational model that just regurgitates the input? I feel like the less advanced generations, maybe even because of their limitations in terms of size, were better at coming up with something that at least feels new. In the end, other than for co…

I'm not sure if this is a problem with overfitting. I'm ok with the model knowing what Indiana Jones or the Predator looks like with well remembered details, it just seems that it's generating images from that knowledge in cases where that isn't appropriate.

I wonder if it's a fine tuning issue where people have overly provided archetypes of the thing that they were training towards. That would be the fastest way for the model to learn the idea but it may also mean the model has implicitly learned to provide not just an instance of a thing but a known archetype of a thing. I'm guessing in most RLHF tests archetypes (regardless of IP status) score quite highly.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#323

Post by card_zero »

codedokode wrote: post #316
card_zero wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it's fun. Ever listened to the KLF, and things from the era before sampling was heavily sat on, such as the album 1987 (What the Fuck Is Going On?) - ? I don't claim it's very good, but it was definitely fun. And the motivation for using existing works, instead of creating your own, is similar to the motivation for using existing words, instead of creating your own. They're reference points, people recognize…

> is similar to the motivation for using existing words I don't think it's like that. If we take music, for example, the existing word would be a note or a scale or a musical instrument or a style, but a melody would be an existing sentence . As for sampling, there is creative usage of samples, like Prodigy for example where it is difficult to even recognize the source. Also today there is some leeway in copyright en…

I put it to you that same difference. These matters of degree are what copyright lawyers haggle over. It implies to me that the whole edifice is forced into being, for its desirable (?) effects, and has no concrete foundation. Nothing pure and elegant and necessary about copyright.

Well, you asked why, anyway, and there's why: it's a natural thing to do.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#324

Post by bigyabai »

airstrike wrote: post #93
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #45

Obviously a horrible hideous theft machine. One thing I would say, it's interesting to consider what would make this not so obviously bad. Like, we could ask AI to assess the physical attributes of the characters it generated. Then ask it to permute some of those attributes. Generate some random tweaks: ok but brawy, short, and a different descent. Do similarly on some clothing colors. Change the game. Hit the "rando…

Can we not call it "theft"? It's such a loaded term and doesn't really mean the same thing when we're talking about bits and bytes.

Only if we stop calling software distribution "piracy" under the false pretenses that anything is being stolen.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#325

Post by awesome_dude »

dcow wrote: post #287
kokanee wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of open sourcing everything and nullifying patents would benefit corporations like Disney and OpenAI vastly more than it would benefit the people. The first thing that would happen is that BigCorp would eat up every interesting or useful piece of art, technology, and culture that has ever been created and monetize the life out of it. These legal protections are needed by the people. To the Pirate Party's cre…

How do restaurants work, then? You can’t copyright a recipe. Instructions can’t generally be copyrighted, otherwise someone would own the fastest route from A to B and charge every person who used it. The whole idea of intellectual property gets really weird when you try to pinpoint what exactly is being owned. I do not agree with your conjecture that big corps would win by default. Ask why would people need protecti…

Closed source - when was the last time your restaurant told you what was in, and how to make, your favourite dish?

What's in Coca Cola?

What are the 11 herbs and spices in Kentucky Fried Chicken?

How do I make the sauce in a Big Mac?

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#326

Post by api »

dcow wrote: post #287
kokanee wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of open sourcing everything and nullifying patents would benefit corporations like Disney and OpenAI vastly more than it would benefit the people. The first thing that would happen is that BigCorp would eat up every interesting or useful piece of art, technology, and culture that has ever been created and monetize the life out of it. These legal protections are needed by the people. To the Pirate Party's cre…

How do restaurants work, then? You can’t copyright a recipe. Instructions can’t generally be copyrighted, otherwise someone would own the fastest route from A to B and charge every person who used it. The whole idea of intellectual property gets really weird when you try to pinpoint what exactly is being owned. I do not agree with your conjecture that big corps would win by default. Ask why would people need protecti…

A restaurant is a small manufacturing facility that produces a physical product. It’s not the same at all.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#327

Post by dcow »

slg wrote: post #312
dcow wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s only a flaw insofar as it’s used in ways in which the property of the tool is problematic. Stereotypes are use for good and bad all the time, let’s not pretend that we have to attack every problem with a funky shaped hammer because we can’t admit that it’s okay to have specialized tools in the tool belt.

I don't follow your analogy. Is the "specialized tool" the AI or the way that it returns "problematic" results? Because I'm not saying the system is bad for using negative stereotypes. I'm saying the system is bad because it removes natural variety from the results making them misleading. The reliance on stereotypes are just one example of this phenomenon with another example being "suave English spy" only returning…

I guess I’m saying that the specific application of stereotypes may be a feature. I don’t think we’ll see a single prevailing winner takes all model, so there is diversity in that respect too. And I think you will even see diversity from a single model. In other words, I don’t think Daniel Craig is the only thing a model will return for “suave english spy”. Just a cheap and easy one.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#328

Post by dcow »

nradov wrote: post #317
dcow wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a rhetorical example. Suppose you need to create an avatar of your character. Why does it follow that it's not beneficial to have an AI help generate the avatar? You're responding to the specific example, not the general argument. Unless your counter is that whatever humanity is doing that AI is helping is probably stupid and shouldn't be done anyway.

No one needs an avatar. You can draw a stick figure or take a selfie or whatever. This is all so silly and trivial.

Consider consulting documentation then. A model can help sift through orders of magnitude more literature than you can in the same timeframe.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#329

Post by api »

echelon wrote: post #285
kokanee wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of open sourcing everything and nullifying patents would benefit corporations like Disney and OpenAI vastly more than it would benefit the people. The first thing that would happen is that BigCorp would eat up every interesting or useful piece of art, technology, and culture that has ever been created and monetize the life out of it. These legal protections are needed by the people. To the Pirate Party's cre…

The original claim is false, > intellectual property [...] used over and over again, primarily by the rich and powerful, to stifle original ideas and hold back cultural innovation. There's nothing about IP which prevents you from creating your own. There are, in fact, a near infinite number of things you can create. More things than there exist stars in our galaxy. The problem with ideas is that they have to be good.…

This is the same argument we made in the 90s about what the web was going to do. What ended up happening was the growth of aggregators and silos like Facebook that baited everyone with ease of use into putting everything into their walled garden and then monetized it. The creators, namely the posters of the content, got nothing.

The same is happening already with AI creations. Doing it yourself is work and takes some technical skill, so most people use hosted AI services. Guess who makes all the money?

You will be able to create and share your own spin on Star Wars. You won’t see anything for that except maybe cred or some upvotes. The company that hosts it and provides the gateway and controls the algorithms that show it to people will get everything.

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