I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad • Hacker News Board

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#231

Post by janitor77swe » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 9:54 AM UTC

mistercheph wrote: post #204

janitor77swe wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Framework laptops are wonderful, modern and (arguably?) cheaper to own in the long-term thanks to being able to replace components, particularly the entire mainboard as time progresses. That is entirely false. Replacing the mainboard itself costs the same amount of money as a new laptop (an entire device). Their component prices are on their website under "Shop Parts", so you can verify that for yourself. I can buy…

> Replacing the mainboard itself costs the same amount of money as a new laptop (an entire device). Their component prices are on their website under "Shop Parts", so you can verify that for yourself. I can buy a brand new Ryzen 7000 series laptop for the price of replacing a Ryzen 7000 series mainboard for a Framework laptop. That’s not true, you must be comparing unlike boards and machines. a 7640 mainboard is $380…

Look:

Ryzen 7840U replacement Framework mainboard £699 (currently discounted): https://frame.work/gb/en/products/mainboard-amd-ryzen-7040-s...

Thinkbook 14" Gen 7, 7735HS/16G/512G £730 - https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/configurator/cto/index.html?bun...

Ideapad Slim 3 Gen 10 14", 8840HS/24G/512G £730 - https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/configurator/cto/index.html?bun...

7840U and 8840HS are essentially the same CPU and the difference in performance between 7840U and 7735HS is minimal, few % at best. So these three are comparable. I'm sorry but for the price of a replacement mainboard I can buy a brand new whole laptop with memory, storage, screen, the everything that comes with it. Am I the only one who just doesn't get the hype behind a repairable laptop?

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#232

Post by tiberius_p » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 9:55 AM UTC

Mine is 12 years old, battery is dead but I use it as a server.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#233

Post by Tade0 » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 9:56 AM UTC

M95D wrote: post #224

CursedSilicon wrote: post #6

I wish that Framework could attain the same lofty levels of "second hand market success" that ThinkPads enjoy. A lot of the "Thinkpad fans" I've talked to genuinely want them, or respect them for similar reasons they enjoy the ThinkPad legacy. ThinkPads are durable but every day they get older, slower and more difficult to source parts for as collectors entrench themselves and the requirements of operating systems (a…

Let me say from the start that I only saw Framework laptops in pictures and I still have my old Lenovo X60 Tablet. I hate Framework laptops' design. They went to the extreme of repairability but only as a marketing tool, while the products are still e-waste trash. I looked at Framework 13 laptop as a replacement for my X60 Tablet. Let me do a comparison between them: - FW13 battery swap needs dissasembly. Can't do it…

  - FW13 has no video output, except as a USB adapter

  - FW13 has no audio outputs, except as USB sound card

That was a conscious design decision, as you're supposed to use swappable expansion cards.

  Other things X60T has, but FW13 doesn't:
  - Fingerprint reader

https://frame.work/pl/en/products/fingerprint-reader-kit?v=F...

  - SD card slot

https://frame.work/pl/en/products/sd-expansion-card

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#234

Post by bkor » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 9:58 AM UTC

quailfarmer wrote: post #167

bkor wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Socketed RAM CUDIMM is changeable and fast. > The user being able to swap parts easily is _neat_ but it's just not an required feature Mostly because people seem to have forgotten that it was possible. Often laptops are slow to due either a too full disk and/or not enough memory. It used to be more common to upgrade those. But apparently that knowledge/skill is forgotten and it's now more custom to buy a new device…

It's faster, but a big reason apple silicon is ahead is because the memory is co-packaged on an MCM. This is the direction things are going.

I noticed I made an error when remembering the memory type I saw a while ago.

I meant the following: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMM_(memory_module)

That's a way to have the memory close, but still being able to change it (without e.g. hot air station or something).

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#235

Post by NullPrefix » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 9:58 AM UTC

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #60

ivraatiems wrote: post #48

I love these old ThinkPads. I refurbish and sell them all the time. Just moments before writing this, I finished fixing up a T580; earlier today I did a heatsink replacement on a W510 which is going strong with an SSD and 20GB RAM. The older they are, the better they are, but even the modern ones are still pretty good. Like the OP mentions, the market for parts is strong and it's easy to get what you need. Then when…

>The older they are, the better they are Everyone agrees the build quality used to be better (my grandpa already said this about appliances from his youth). But one thing I almost never see discussed is the power consumption of these old devices. Older CPUs often double as room heaters. Modern ones, especially the Apple M-series, have become a lot more efficient. So while I agree that modern laptops suck in many ways…

ThinkPads use 20V chargers. USB-C supports 20V power delivery. What's the efficiency of power adapters back then compared to current gen USB-C chargers?

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#236

Post by RavSS » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 9:58 AM UTC

neilv wrote: post #23

p_ing wrote: post #2

A 17 year old ThinkPad is going to have extremely limited utility for today's applications. You can browse the web****, sure. You can replace parts, yes. But it still performs like dogshit for today's applications. That said, I maintain a G4 Cube running an outdated OS to play Sim City and Sim Tower. And it's "upgraded" as much as possible. ****JavaScript not included

Web, including JavaScript, should work fine on that laptop. Until recently, my daily driver was the T500 (the larger screen version of the T400 in the article), and it worked fine for everything except GPU. (I actually downgraded to the T500 years ago, because I was pissed off about the Intel Management Engine.) Recently, I upgraded from the T500 to the T520, which is the last ThinkPad with a non-chiclet keyboard. It…

You can use the T420/T520's keyboard in a T430/T530 with modifications to the firmware, some plastic around the keyboard part itself, and the ribbon cable (just pin isolation with tape). It lets you go with Ivy Bridge over Sandy Bridge.

I have a T430 with the T420's keyboard and it lasted me 7 years of daily use before battery life became too big of an issue for me (even with a single DDR3L RAM module and a slice battery), so I put it aside. The typing experience was really excellent.

Upgrading the CPU to a quad-core model (ideally one that consumes 35W over 45W) is one of the best upgrades to make for anyone still using these machines.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#237

Post by AshamedCaptain » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 9:59 AM UTC

janitor77swe wrote: post #144

CursedSilicon wrote: post #6

I wish that Framework could attain the same lofty levels of "second hand market success" that ThinkPads enjoy. A lot of the "Thinkpad fans" I've talked to genuinely want them, or respect them for similar reasons they enjoy the ThinkPad legacy. ThinkPads are durable but every day they get older, slower and more difficult to source parts for as collectors entrench themselves and the requirements of operating systems (a…

> Framework laptops are wonderful, modern and (arguably?) cheaper to own in the long-term thanks to being able to replace components, particularly the entire mainboard as time progresses. That is entirely false. Replacing the mainboard itself costs the same amount of money as a new laptop (an entire device). Their component prices are on their website under "Shop Parts", so you can verify that for yourself. I can buy…

> the only thing you will be able to replace is the battery and the screen. Both which 99% users never have to replace.

This is sarcasm, I hope, right? The two most consumable items in the laptop (specially for OLED screens), and you're suggesting users have no need to replace them?

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#238

Post by microtonal » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 9:59 AM UTC

maccard wrote: post #141

roywashere wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My new company of about 100 persons uses ThinkPads as their 'standard issue' laptops. Which I guess is great. I have a T480 privately. But modern ThinkPads are not as great as before, and I was just thinking about if the Framework might make a nice 'standard issue' laptop for the company. I guess it might be just fine!

When would you define as “before”? I’ve had a thinkpad on and off and I’d describe the quality as consistent. People talking about old Lenovos being good quality are often talking about in the pre-IBM days which is far more likely to be nostalgia at this point.

We had an expensive IBM ThinkPad model (too long ago to remember what model it was) and the keyboard and several other parts were worn down in three years of mostly in-home use. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

At least a lot of modern ThinkPads are still modular. Recently got a 5th gen T14 AMD. Memory, NVMe SSD, WWAN modem, battery, and a bunch of other components are really easy to replace. I think I prefer the keyboard over my MBP, it feels less harsh.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#239

Post by jamesdhutton » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 10:03 AM UTC

I’m currently coding a Flutter app on a 15-year-old Dell desktop, running Linux. The experience is great. I’m running latest versions of VS Code, Flutter, you name it. It’s nice and snappy and a joy to use. I’ve upgraded RAM, SSDs, GPU over the years to keep it somewhat up to date. Eventually I’m going to have to cave in and buy a Mac so that I can publish my app for iOS. I’ve been loathe to do it though and I’ve been putting it off. This article is a great explanation of why I’ve been so loathe. It articulates reasons that were semi-subconscious for me.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#240

Post by ladyanita22 » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 10:08 AM UTC

tyushk wrote: post #47

I run NixOS on a coreboot-ed T420 and I absolutely love everything on the outside, but it really shows its age when compared to the display on my Macbook or it comes to running heavier software ie. rust-analyzer, Chrome, or Nix builds. If Lenovo were to release a modern T420-like, with identical chassis, battery system and similar IO port variety, but a modern display, modern internals (replaceable SSD! soldered RAM…

Doesn't NixOS hog on your hardware?