I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad • Hacker News Board

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#201

Post by herbst » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 8:50 AM UTC

maccard wrote: post #141

roywashere wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My new company of about 100 persons uses ThinkPads as their 'standard issue' laptops. Which I guess is great. I have a T480 privately. But modern ThinkPads are not as great as before, and I was just thinking about if the Framework might make a nice 'standard issue' laptop for the company. I guess it might be just fine!

When would you define as “before”? I’ve had a thinkpad on and off and I’d describe the quality as consistent. People talking about old Lenovos being good quality are often talking about in the pre-IBM days which is far more likely to be nostalgia at this point.

I have a T420. A few years ago I switched to a slightly used T480, keyboard was a huge downgrade and the whole series can get really stupid USBC issues. After half a year or so it didn't dock anymore and I got an X1, basically the same laptop glad I found it without touch and the 'bright screen' because the screen is barely good enough, keyboard is the same and USBc already started to get finicky.

Meanwhile my T420 still runs like on day one (which was already 5 years old when I got it, and travelled 1+ years with me in a backpack), the screen works in direct sunlight and it's not even the best of its series, hardware still perfect. Fat SSD + 32GB Ram and you can barely tell how old it is.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#202

Post by dmwilcox » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 8:52 AM UTC

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #67

I have a PowerBook titanium G4 from 2003 that I can boot but never bother because it's not worth the power consumption.

Really??? I had an iBook from 2001, and put Linux on it, but power consumption was definitely the best of laptops in that entire era. What could it be, like 20-30 watts? Motorola PPC processors weren't exactly heat beasts (or speed demons lol).

I'd be curious about how yours has held up. I overclocked my iBook back in the day to play DivX (bumped FSB from 66 to 100mhz) and it eventually cooked around 2010.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#203

Post by johnisgood » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 8:55 AM UTC

fouronnes3 wrote: post #176

shoo wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We must either increase the production rate of T480-size thinkpads by around 9x or get Lenovo to release at least one special edition extreme widescreen thinkpad specialised for lunar round trips

Or move the moon closer.

That sounds even more plausible.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#204

Post by mistercheph » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 8:55 AM UTC

janitor77swe wrote: post #144

CursedSilicon wrote: post #6

I wish that Framework could attain the same lofty levels of "second hand market success" that ThinkPads enjoy. A lot of the "Thinkpad fans" I've talked to genuinely want them, or respect them for similar reasons they enjoy the ThinkPad legacy. ThinkPads are durable but every day they get older, slower and more difficult to source parts for as collectors entrench themselves and the requirements of operating systems (a…

> Framework laptops are wonderful, modern and (arguably?) cheaper to own in the long-term thanks to being able to replace components, particularly the entire mainboard as time progresses. That is entirely false. Replacing the mainboard itself costs the same amount of money as a new laptop (an entire device). Their component prices are on their website under "Shop Parts", so you can verify that for yourself. I can buy…

> Replacing the mainboard itself costs the same amount of money as a new laptop (an entire device). Their component prices are on their website under "Shop Parts", so you can verify that for yourself. I can buy a brand new Ryzen 7000 series laptop for the price of replacing a Ryzen 7000 series mainboard for a Framework laptop.

That’s not true, you must be comparing unlike boards and machines.

a 7640 mainboard is $380 (https://frame.work/products/mainboard-amd-ryzen-7040-series?...) and a 7640 chassis (with no memory, ssd, or expansion bays) is $750 (https://frame.work/products/laptop-diy-13-gen-amd/configurat...)

Another example, the ai 7 350 mainboard is $700, and a bare chassis is $1,230.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#205

Post by close04 » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 8:56 AM UTC

maccard wrote: post #141

roywashere wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My new company of about 100 persons uses ThinkPads as their 'standard issue' laptops. Which I guess is great. I have a T480 privately. But modern ThinkPads are not as great as before, and I was just thinking about if the Framework might make a nice 'standard issue' laptop for the company. I guess it might be just fine!

When would you define as “before”? I’ve had a thinkpad on and off and I’d describe the quality as consistent. People talking about old Lenovos being good quality are often talking about in the pre-IBM days which is far more likely to be nostalgia at this point.

I've used Thinkpads consistently for 25-30 years, and still do. I can't really draw a line between "before" and "after" but if I take a long enough period I can definitely see differences in the experience getting watered down or generally worse, from less flexibility to lower reliability.

I still have and regularly use a fully functional X200, somewhere in the box I have a fully functional T42 and an R31 whose only defect is a small screen blemish caused by me closing the lid with something on the keyboard.

But my multiple X1 Gen1 and Gen2 all have various failures (screen, battery, webcam, or keyboard), my T450 has big battery issues, my T470s have screen/GPU and battery issues. T490 is fine for now, X1 Gen11 has crappy battery and is overheating from the get go. These are different generations, different lots and still affected by the same constant issues.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#206

Post by herbst » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 8:56 AM UTC

roflmaostc wrote: post #195

noufalibrahim wrote: post #191

I've been on a non stop thinkpad streak since 2005 or so. T42 (IBM), X200, X230 and now X1 carbon. I used a thinkpad X200 back in 2014 or so and it got completely destroyed due to a spill. I replaced the memory, keyboard etc. but was unable to get it to work again. Also, the monitor had developed a few dead scanlines so I decided to buy another one. This was my primary work machine so I needed something quickly. I go…

I changed recently from X1 Yoga Gen 2 to X1 Yoga (2-in-1) Gen 9. The decline in quality is so clearly visible, the external pen is poorly designed and died after 6 months. The hinges are as loose as in a 600$ laptop. The whole thing makes cracking noises under slight stress. Also, Linux compatibility is poor, my Webcam still does not work. Battery lifetime is a joke too. Lenovo made this Laptop worse than 7 years ago…

To be fair yoga models always had issues, never fully Linux compatible and never had a long lifetime. Not sure what this series is supposed to be, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#207

Post by johnisgood » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 8:59 AM UTC

gherard5555 wrote: post #179

My T480 just doesn't want to die. I dropped it a lot, in my staircase, on concrete floor, accidentally emptied my whole mug of coffee on it (had to change the keyboard that time some keys were stuck). At some point I felt so confident I tried stepping on it when it was closed. So yeah this thing is pretty tough.

Seems like it is the laptop equivalent of the dumbphone Nokia 3310. :D

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#208

Post by jeswin » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 8:59 AM UTC

sfn42 wrote: post #173

maccard wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When would you define as “before”? I’ve had a thinkpad on and off and I’d describe the quality as consistent. People talking about old Lenovos being good quality are often talking about in the pre-IBM days which is far more likely to be nostalgia at this point.

My first ThinkPad had terrible battery life. It was a X1 Extreme or something like that, pretty high end but the battery was useless. Even brand new it wouldn't last an hour off leash. Also couldn't use usb-c charging from the monitors at the office, had to be plugged in. Also the Fn key is where the Ctrl key should be, which is endlessly annoying as a user of different laptop brands.

> Also the Fn key is where the Ctrl key should be, which is endlessly annoying as a user of different laptop brands.

There's always been a bios option to swap them. It's on my x230, and probably exists on older PCs as well.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#209

Post by cbeach » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 9:00 AM UTC

This article compares two deliberately-different platforms.

One is vertically integrated and designed for thermal performance, lightness, thinness and attractiveness.

One is modular, and sacrifices thermal performance, lightness, thinness and attractiveness in order that the user can replace their own battery / RAM / etc

IMO the latter is a false economy. Yes, you can upgrade your RAM, but what about the bus speed, and limitations of the motherboard and CPU? You end up with a Frankenstein's monster of new and old parts, which are constrained by the lowest common denominator, and only useful for basic tasks.

Apple devices have high resale value. Far better, IMO, to sell your laptop after a few years, as a cohesive, intact package that retains some residual value, and then buy a new one with wholly modern parts that make sense together.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#210

Post by herbst » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 9:01 AM UTC

gherard5555 wrote: post #179

My T480 just doesn't want to die. I dropped it a lot, in my staircase, on concrete floor, accidentally emptied my whole mug of coffee on it (had to change the keyboard that time some keys were stuck). At some point I felt so confident I tried stepping on it when it was closed. So yeah this thing is pretty tough.

Except the USBc. Not sure if this applies to all models of the t480 series but that connector was slowly breaking down with each use, until it partially worked as charging slot and all usb functionality was lost.

I went trough 4 different docks until I realized who the actual problem was, and the internet was full with similar issues once I knew what to look for.

For some reason my nearly identical, slightly newer, X1 doesn't have these issues.