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Amazon Submits Bid for TikTok with US Sale Deadline Nearing

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Re: Amazon Submits Bid for TikTok with US Sale Deadline Nearing

#61

Post by davorak »

dmix wrote: post #26
siliconc0w wrote: post #10

It's crazy to me that TikTok is still operating. A law was passed, the supreme court even weighed in, and a EO cannot undo that. The president has an obligation to faithfully execute the law.

> The president has an obligation to faithfully execute the law. The president can instruct (or basically ask) DOJ to delay enforcement, similar to how they can instruct federal agencies to prioritize certain types of crime, but it can't override a law. The EO gave a 75 days temporary delay which is ending soon as the article says

> The president can instruct (or basically ask) DOJ to delay enforcement

That does not change if the law has been broken though or that those breaking can be punished for breaking the law though to my understanding. So in cases where a president asks for something not to be enforced a future DOJ, even under the same president, would be enabled to press charges to my understanding.

Re: Amazon Submits Bid for TikTok with US Sale Deadline Nearing

#62

Post by davorak »

pests wrote: post #48
Maxatar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course an EO can undo it. The law gives the President the authority to grant a possible 90-day extension.

The law also says the extension can only happen if the divesture is in progress and steps are being taken, a vote by congress, etc.

Yeah it seems pretty cut and dry, that the laws is not being followed here and their could be consequences for the companies breaking it if either Trump changes his mind or a future DOJ decides to press the matter. Not clear what(edit) legal arguments/advise behind the scenes convinced google and apple to put tiktok back in their stores after they had removed it on Jan 18th.

Re: Amazon Submits Bid for TikTok with US Sale Deadline Nearing

#63

Post by davorak »

9rx wrote: post #54
siliconc0w wrote: post #10

It's crazy to me that TikTok is still operating. A law was passed, the supreme court even weighed in, and a EO cannot undo that. The president has an obligation to faithfully execute the law.

> The president has an obligation to faithfully execute the law. To whom? It doesn't bother him personally. It thrills his supporters. Those who wish for such an obligation show no willingness to tar and feather him for non-compliance, preventing their wishes from becoming reality. What's left?

> To whom?

The presidents oath to his office for one, the constitution, the rule of law, the citizens of the United States.

Easy to say whom/what/why. Let's separate that from enforcement mechanisms.

Re: Amazon Submits Bid for TikTok with US Sale Deadline Nearing

#64

Post by palmotea »

dmix wrote: post #44
theyinwhy wrote: post #30

Never thought I will see this country cheering expropriation in my lifetime.

Copying the Chinese government policies seems to be popular right now. Huge public investments in private industry (CHIPS) and restricting foreign ownership in companies. If you can't beat them, copy them, or something.

> Copying the Chinese government policies seems to be popular right now. Huge public investments in private industry (CHIPS) and restricting foreign ownership in companies. If you can't beat them, copy them, or something.

Not all of them, but some of them. It's not like the Chinese are dumb and can't do anything right. Also, the previously fashionable neoliberal policies were stupid and exploitable.

Re: Amazon Submits Bid for TikTok with US Sale Deadline Nearing

#65

Post by davorak »

pests wrote: post #13
siliconc0w wrote: post #10

It's crazy to me that TikTok is still operating. A law was passed, the supreme court even weighed in, and a EO cannot undo that. The president has an obligation to faithfully execute the law.

I do agree and not trying to even comment on the current administration. Hasn't it always kind of been like that? Isn't marijuana illegal too?

I would not say marijuana laws are an apples to apples comparison. There are state laws in place legalizing marijuana sales in some states so that ends up being states rights/power vs federal rights and power.

In the tiktok case it is federal law apparently not being followed by the federal government.

Re: Amazon Submits Bid for TikTok with US Sale Deadline Nearing

#66

Post by from-nibly »

mullingitover wrote: post #29
siliconc0w wrote: post #10

It's crazy to me that TikTok is still operating. A law was passed, the supreme court even weighed in, and a EO cannot undo that. The president has an obligation to faithfully execute the law.

> It's crazy to me that TikTok is still operating Not at all, I don't think our elderly political leadership really had a grasp on how massive Tiktok is with GenZ and younger Americans. It would be, to the elderly, like the government unilaterally banning AM radio. There are certainly issues with Tiktok, but it was complete out-of-touch hubris to decide to censor the dominant media platform in the US for people under…

No ticktock is not a protocol or airspace. It's a company. It would be like banning Disney.

Re: Amazon Submits Bid for TikTok with US Sale Deadline Nearing

#67

Post by Beijinger »

sdoering wrote: post #56
Beijinger wrote: post #45

Amazon has become an unreliable company. Opaque return practices, overbilling and break of contract have become common. "TikTok Shop is an integrated e-commerce platform within the TikTok app that allows users to shop directly from videos, live streams, and profiles." Amazon just tries to destroy a competitor. We can only hope that authorities won't allow an acquisition by Amazon (EU maybe?). I personally still use A…

> Amazon has become an unreliable company. Opaque return practices, overbilling and break of contract have become common. It has? I have never had that experience. And I would say, that comes from quite strong customer protection laws in Germany. So I would say your legal system has enabled it to become that way. Because Amazon - in Germany and other markets with strong regulations - clearly is capable of performing…

The f. up an order from me. I needed the stuff since I moved to a new place. Canceled it without ever telling me. Customer service told me to reorder with the fastest shipment and I will be "reimbursed". I did order again with fast shipment. Obviously I was not reimbursed and they called it a "misunderstanding". I still have the chats. Would be an easy win in small claims court. But for 40 USD? Not worth the time.

Re: Amazon Submits Bid for TikTok with US Sale Deadline Nearing

#68

Post by 9rx »

davorak wrote: post #63
9rx wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The president has an obligation to faithfully execute the law. To whom? It doesn't bother him personally. It thrills his supporters. Those who wish for such an obligation show no willingness to tar and feather him for non-compliance, preventing their wishes from becoming reality. What's left?

> To whom? The presidents oath to his office for one, the constitution, the rule of law, the citizens of the United States. Easy to say whom/what/why. Let's separate that from enforcement mechanisms.

> The presidents oath to his office for one, the constitution, the rule of law

You cannot be obligated to the inanimate. It would be fair to say that these things are symbols representing people, who you can be obligated to, but that brings us back to trying to figure out who those people are.

> the citizens of the United States.

Like, as in the citizens that voted for him? His entire campaign was ran on the promise of going off to do as he pleases, so there there was no such obligation established there.

Not everyone voted for him, to be sure, but they are primarily the group that wishes there was that obligation. They have not (to this point) established the obligation.

> Let's separate that from enforcement mechanisms.

You can't, really. Without motivation, there is no obligation. While that motivation can come from within or, say, social pressure, the president already has those satisfied. He doesn't care personally and anyone else he might want to impress supports him. That only leaves those who are willing to exert a compelling force, and that doesn't appear to exist.

Let's not confuse want of obligation with obligation. I assert that you are obligated to make me lunch each day! But we both know it's not happening. That is not how obligation works.

Re: Amazon Submits Bid for TikTok with US Sale Deadline Nearing

#69

Post by Beijinger »

anon7000 wrote: post #49
Beijinger wrote: post #45

Amazon has become an unreliable company. Opaque return practices, overbilling and break of contract have become common. "TikTok Shop is an integrated e-commerce platform within the TikTok app that allows users to shop directly from videos, live streams, and profiles." Amazon just tries to destroy a competitor. We can only hope that authorities won't allow an acquisition by Amazon (EU maybe?). I personally still use A…

> We can only hope that authorities won't allow an acquisition by Amazon (EU maybe?). This would only be for the US arm of TikTok, yeah? So EU will have no oversight

As far as I understand, this is wrong.

"The European Union (EU) cannot directly veto Amazon's acquisition of TikTok's U.S. operations, as the EU's jurisdiction is limited to transactions that impact the European market. However, if TikTok has significant operations or revenue in Europe, the EU could review the deal under its merger control and foreign investment regulations, such as the Foreign Subsidies Regulation (FSR). This applies to acquisitions involving companies with an EU turnover exceeding €500 million and substantial foreign financial contributions"

Re: Amazon Submits Bid for TikTok with US Sale Deadline Nearing

#70

Post by Ifkaluva »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #28

This is all pointless since TikTok's parent has said it won't sell and is very likely being menaced by the PRC in this respect.

I wonder if the US govt would be willing to go as far as seizing the US operations, which are headquartered in LA.

I take your point that the PRC is threatening ByteDance, but what is to stop them from being menaced over here as well?

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