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"Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering

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Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering

#51

Post by icegreentea »

benthumb wrote: post #40
valdiorn wrote: post #13

As a trained electrical engineer, working as a software "engineer", it is my opinion that those quotation marks I just used are necessary. I may be an engineer, but I'm not employed as one, even if it says so on my business card.

If this isn't engineering, I'd love to know what it is: http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/07/google-cars-300000-miles-wi...

There are software engineers, and then there are software "engineers". Just because because of their jobs involve programming does not make them all the same. Just like how using CAD doesn't automatically make you an engineer.

There are definitely software endeavors and jobs that can be called works of engineering. And then there are those in the grey areas, and then there are those which are not.

Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering

#53

Post by steverb »

polshaw wrote: post #7

As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful. Similarly to the 'are you technical?' thing, why is there such an aversion to the term programmer or software developer? I have no problem with the term 'software engineers', as i do seem some parallels, and it is clear wha…

Does the military's use of the term to apply to anyone doing construction irk you as well?

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjobs/a/21.-uJZ.htm

Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering

#54

Post by [deleted] »

barik wrote: post #44
polshaw wrote: post #7

As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful. Similarly to the 'are you technical?' thing, why is there such an aversion to the term programmer or software developer? I have no problem with the term 'software engineers', as i do seem some parallels, and it is clear wha…

"As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful." I'm not certain it has anything to do with the physical world; after all Industrial Engineering is considered a valid disciplined that is entitled to an Engineering license, and many of the IE's I know might be better cha…

[deleted]

Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering

#55

Post by brianto2010 »

polshaw wrote: post #7

As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful. Similarly to the 'are you technical?' thing, why is there such an aversion to the term programmer or software developer? I have no problem with the term 'software engineers', as i do seem some parallels, and it is clear wha…

> You wouldn't call a software architect simply 'an architect' (would you?).

Yes, yes I would.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architect_(disambiguation)

- third bullet down

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_(disambiguation)

- look under 'Process Architecture'

Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering

#56

Post by polshaw »

steverb wrote: post #53
polshaw wrote: post #7

As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful. Similarly to the 'are you technical?' thing, why is there such an aversion to the term programmer or software developer? I have no problem with the term 'software engineers', as i do seem some parallels, and it is clear wha…

Does the military's use of the term to apply to anyone doing construction irk you as well? http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjobs/a/21.-uJZ.htm

Personally, not really, because there is no real ambiguity. For example, at a company like apple (or anywhere else that makes devices), they might have 'real' qualified engineers working alongside software engineers.

The liberal use of the term 'engineer' to describe technicians or mechanics does irk many in the engineering fields, however.

In Germany, the term is protected, so it is illegal to use the label without holding full qualifications, like 'doctor' or 'lawyer'.

Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering

#57

Post by Evbn »

steverb wrote: post #53
polshaw wrote: post #7

As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful. Similarly to the 'are you technical?' thing, why is there such an aversion to the term programmer or software developer? I have no problem with the term 'software engineers', as i do seem some parallels, and it is clear wha…

Does the military's use of the term to apply to anyone doing construction irk you as well? http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjobs/a/21.-uJZ.htm

Not as much as those posers who manage train engines. Who, by the way, should be angry at these Civil and Chem engineers who never saw an engine in their lives.

Let's acknowledge that language grows and changes as new concepts are invented.

Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering

#60

Post by thomseddon »

padobson wrote: post #19

So, building a bridge is an engineering endeavor. Does this mean that drawing blueprints for the bridge is not engineering? What about working a crane? Laying brick? Sealing pavement? Sweeping the bridge? Could you say that an AWS datacenter is not a feat of engineering? Certainly writing the software that powers it is as important as any other discipline, and every piece of its execution has definable metrics to mea…

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with the point you are working towards, I don't follow your pedantic breakdowns of various endeavors.

"Drawing" the blueprints would be done by a draftsman not necessarily an engineer, working a crane is a skilled job done by crane operators (again not necessarily engineers), and brick laying/pavement sealing/bridge sweeping is again not necessarily done by an engineer. In building a bridge, the "engineering" is done by the civil engineer who designs the bridge, chooses and calculates its construction: "applying scientific knowledge, mathematics and ingenuity to develop solutions for technical problems."

Similarly, a datacenter may be considered a feat of engineering, but the construction (read: design) of the datacentre is done by civil/structural engineers and is separate from this argument (although this may not have been what you were getting at, my interpretation was that you were initially including the building in your point).

I would argue that if a janitor was to optimise his/her route by counting steps, this is not a technical problem and so doesn't make him an engineer.

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