Live data from Hacker News

Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

unsw.edu.au

81–90 of 177 posts

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#81

The way I understood it creatine by itself doesn't promote muscle gain all that much. It's the fact that you can potentially do one to three more reps which does. But that still means you have to do the reps. https://leangains.com/supplements-you-might-actually-find-us...

yeah I took a look at the methodology here, it seemed like this should have been accounted for in the plan though maybe I'm missing something. That said this is just one study and will play into meta-analyses at some point which are more interesting

After the 7-day wash-in, both groups followed the same RT program that comprising 3 full-body sessions a week for 12 weeks (Supplementary Materials, Table S1). All sessions were supervised by tertiary qualified exercise physiologists and commenced with a standardised warm-up of dynamic flexibility exercises. Each session consisted of 5 exercises: 2 compound movements each for the upper and lower body, and 1 isolation movement for the upper body. Four sets were prescribed for all movements to ensure an adequate weekly training volume for hypertrophy [32]. Training intensities were 6 to 12 repetition maximums (RM) with 60 and 120 s of rest between sets and exercises, respectively. To adhere to the prescribed RM, an individual’s rating of perceived exertion (RPE) on a Likert scale of 1–10 was recorded. RPE corresponds to the number of repetitions an individual perceives they will be able to perform after the set is complete, where an RPE 5 equates to 5 reps more, RPE 6 is 4 reps more, RPE 7 is 3 reps more, and so on [33]. When a RPE of 8 or lower was recorded, the external load (kg) was adjusted on successive sets to ensure that subjects achieved the target RM. The RM method was used to ensure that training intensities were relative to the individual’s abilities while also standardising the training intensity across all participants [34].

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#84
post #20

Participants were instructed to maintain their current dietary habits and physical activity levels for the duration of the study. My understanding is that creatine increases the amount of available energy for muscles to use (hence increases sports performance, training performance, and recovery) - not increase muscle growth alone. That said - it is an interesting study which helps decompose the effect, this shows tha…

I've found it gives me a lot more mental energy too. Like I can think better with creatine.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#85
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's also the case when people scoff at pro bodybuilders due to steroids. Steroids don't magically give you the gains, you still have to put the work in. You just get rewarded more, and quicker at cost of other side effects.

Studies show that sedentary men on steroids gain more muscle mass than active men that aren’t on steroids. So you don’t always have to work for them, especially if you used a steroid like Tren which is 5x more anabolic than testosterone.

there is guy here who was a wrestler in college, and now 60+.. he eats more protein per day than most people, his muscles are dense, heavy and now painful. I mean back surgery and limited mobility.. He does two minutes of exercise, claims to "stretch" then eats more.. basically, his body is making a lot of muscle but he does not do much work, and it is degenerate at his age.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's also the case when people scoff at pro bodybuilders due to steroids. Steroids don't magically give you the gains, you still have to put the work in. You just get rewarded more, and quicker at cost of other side effects.

> Steroids don't magically give you the gains, you still have to put the work in. That's not an entirely fair description of the situation actually. Imagine the 4 groups from the cross product of WorksOut?(Yes/No) cross Steroids?(Y/N). It's intuitive, obvious, and supported by the data that The WorksOut(Y) + Steroids(Y) Group reliably gains more muscle over time than other groups. And similarly that the WorksOut(N) +…

I think this takeaway is deeply flawed:

  > "The sad truth is those on steroids, though sedentary, gain more muscle than those who workout without steroids."

The proper takeaway is something like: "Untrained males without prior AAS use gained more muscle over a 10 week non-exercise period than similar males who performed exercise."

These sorts of adapations are not linear and consistent, similar to the "noob gains" experienced in the first few months by novice lifters.

Anyone who has trained in a somewhat serious gym can tell you that there are many people taking steroids, often times in dosages manyfold what this study use, who have mediocre physiques.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#87

I do not understand why would anyone believe that creatine can influence muscle gains. Muscle gains require an adequate protein intake, but creatine has no relationship with that. Creatine, as phosphocreatine, provides energy storage for short-time anaerobic effort. After the available phosphocreatine is exhausted, only a lower power can be sustained, at the level that can be supported by the conversion of glucose in…

> I do not understand why would anyone believe that creatine can influence muscle gains.

Simple. Being able to work out harder and longer, assuming proper sleep and nutrition, leads to greater muscle gain. There's no mystery.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#88

The way I understood it creatine by itself doesn't promote muscle gain all that much. It's the fact that you can potentially do one to three more reps which does. But that still means you have to do the reps. https://leangains.com/supplements-you-might-actually-find-us...

Exactly. As ATP is broken down to adenosine and phosphate to produce energy, creatine re-phosphorolates adenosine. So it gives you more energy at molecular level. But as you said, you have to actually use that energy.

And not even just use that energy, use that in a way that promotes hypertrophy. There’s lots of ways that energy could be used that doesn’t ultimately get you any muscle growth.

For example, you could be using it in athletics, running, etc and it’s not inherently going to give you growth.

The effects have been known to be small. You get a little extra energy that might push you a little further in a set going to failure or with one or two reps in reserve. Maybe you slide in some lengthened partial that you go a bit more through the range of motion that you would have had energy to do otherwise.

And that happens again and again over the course of years and you get a tiny bit extra from it, probably. I’m not sure this study design disproves that at all.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#89
post #6

I've had the pleasure of working with a personal trainer who has a broad educational training background. She emphasized that creatine "kind of helped" but it was really only that last mile 5% benefit. And the effect would mostly be long-term (1-2 years of dedicated training). She just told me to focus on trying to get 1 gram of high quality protein daily for pound of body weight. This study is just one study, but to…

> She just told me to focus on trying to get 1 gram of high quality protein daily for pound of body weight. You hear this a lot, but it is incredibly difficult to eat eg 175g of protein every day. That's 4 chicken breasts, every day.

I don't think it's that difficult if you're training a lot and eating accordingly. For someone eating 3000 calories a day, that's less than 25% of calories from protein, which is pretty reasonable.

It's harder if you're not eating a lot overall, but still doable with some planning and the occasional protein shake.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#90
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steroids increase muscle growth despite having no relationship with adequate protein intake.

What's the source? How can you build muscle without amino acids, the building blocks of protein, which muscles need to grow?

Are you seriously demanding a source for the claim that steroids lead to greater muscle gains?
Post reply on HN