The software "engineering" argument is debatable, but computer science certainly implies some classical scientific principles. Areas such as quantum mechanics, relativity theory and thermodynamics are relevant in computer studies. The subject of "Computer Science" is vast, at least equalling the scope of more accepted scientific disciplines and probably stretching beyond.
"Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering
41–50 of 93 posts
Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering
#42As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful. Similarly to the 'are you technical?' thing, why is there such an aversion to the term programmer or software developer? I have no problem with the term 'software engineers', as i do seem some parallels, and it is clear wha…
One part of the problem is (US) customs. I travel to the US frequently and must use a title including words like, "Engineer", "Architect" or "Analyst". When a title like programmer can be obtained by reading the introduction to "Learning VB" it carries little to no weight and I cannot say I disagree. I don't really care all that much what I am called, 90% of society still has no idea what I do.
Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering
#43"Underlying our approach to this subject is our conviction that 'computer science' is not a science and that its significance has little to do with computers. The computer revolution is a revolution in the way we think and in the way we express what we think. The essence of this change is the emergence of what might best be called procedural epistemology the study of the structure of knowledge from an imperative po…
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Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering
#44As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful. Similarly to the 'are you technical?' thing, why is there such an aversion to the term programmer or software developer? I have no problem with the term 'software engineers', as i do seem some parallels, and it is clear wha…
"As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful."
I'm not certain it has anything to do with the physical world; after all Industrial Engineering is considered a valid disciplined that is entitled to an Engineering license, and many of the IE's I know might be better characterized as mathematicians.
Still, I tend to agree with your assessment of the term Engineer, although it's largely because unlike other Engineering fields, Software Engineers in the US seem to be happy to hold the title without having to meet any of the legal requirements [1]. A PE license, while not insurmountable, is not exactly the easiest title to acquire. Efforts have been proposed to make Software Engineering part of this licensing process, but it seems to have a lot of push back. Perhaps the solution is to have legal weight (perhaps like 'Lawyer' or 'MD') behind the title, as countries like Canada have (the US has this to some extent, but it's not nearly as strong).
Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering
#45As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful. Similarly to the 'are you technical?' thing, why is there such an aversion to the term programmer or software developer? I have no problem with the term 'software engineers', as i do seem some parallels, and it is clear wha…
It is about money and prestige.
Stupid companies have titles and titles are associated with more pay and and more respect. It so happens that people who went to a 2 year technical school would call themselves "programmers" and then those who went to a 4 year college and worked for 5 years don't want to be called by the same label, so they have to invent something sounds harder to get, something more prestigious, so now they are "software engineers". Just like chemical engineers, it implies a certain difficulty of attaining this title, and it is used to differentiate the ranks. But it doesn't stop there, then there is more stupidity there is "Programmer II" vs "Programmer VI" vs "System Architect".
Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering
#46As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful. Similarly to the 'are you technical?' thing, why is there such an aversion to the term programmer or software developer? I have no problem with the term 'software engineers', as i do seem some parallels, and it is clear wha…
"As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful." I'm not certain it has anything to do with the physical world; after all Industrial Engineering is considered a valid disciplined that is entitled to an Engineering license, and many of the IE's I know might be better cha…
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Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering
#47As someone with an engineering degree, it does irk me to constantly hear programmers referred to around these quarters as 'engineers', it's extremely introspective, and IMO a little disrespectful. Similarly to the 'are you technical?' thing, why is there such an aversion to the term programmer or software developer? I have no problem with the term 'software engineers', as i do seem some parallels, and it is clear wha…
It is about money and prestige. Stupid companies have titles and titles are associated with more pay and and more respect. It so happens that people who went to a 2 year technical school would call themselves "programmers" and then those who went to a 4 year college and worked for 5 years don't want to be called by the same label, so they have to invent something sounds harder to get, something more prestigious, so n…
"Stupid companies have titles and titles are associated with more pay and and more respect."
This is even more true in licensed fields. If you have a two year degree, your title will generally be "Engineering Technician", and not "Engineer". And you get to be on a completely different pay scale for the rest of your life as a result of the degree you obtained, even if you do the same work as an Engineer.
Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering
#48Quote from http://wikipedia.org/wiki/engineer "An engineer is a professional practitioner of engineering, concerned with applying scientific knowledge, mathematics and ingenuity to develop solutions for technical problems. Engineers design materials, structures and systems while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, safety and cost. The word engineer is derived from the Latin roots ingeniare ("to contr…
Etymology is one area where I know not to trust Wikipedia. I'm pretty sure an "engine-er" maintains an "engine", in the act of "engineer-ing".
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/engineer || http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/engineer
On what grounds were you "pretty sure"? Etymology is one of the easier things to corroborate online.
Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering
#49I don't know anyone who especially disagrees with this, but etymology is not a consistent process. The term "software engineering" evolved for various reasons; whether the discipline is actually covered under "engineering" is as relevant as whether or not you're actually killing 1/10th of a population when you "decimate".
Also, reminds me that my favorite description of my school (http://www.wpi.edu) was that it specialized in "science, engineering, and computer science", since of course CS is neither science nor engineering.
Re: "Computer Science" is Not Science and "Software Engineering" is Not Engineering
#50Quote from http://wikipedia.org/wiki/engineer "An engineer is a professional practitioner of engineering, concerned with applying scientific knowledge, mathematics and ingenuity to develop solutions for technical problems. Engineers design materials, structures and systems while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, safety and cost. The word engineer is derived from the Latin roots ingeniare ("to contr…
Etymology is one area where I know not to trust Wikipedia. I'm pretty sure an "engine-er" maintains an "engine", in the act of "engineer-ing".
Would you trust dictionary.com? It agrees with Wikipedia.
Origin: 1350–1400; engine + -eer; replacing Middle English engin ( e ) our http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/engineer