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It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

thephcheese.com

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Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#71

Post by 0_____0 »

craftkiller wrote: post #56
parliament32 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the best example is parmesan. You should buy a small brick and shred it, then compare to the Kraft tube we all know -- the difference is massive.

I've had both and I'm going to have to disagree with you here. For the other cheeses, buying a brick is always the right choice. For parmesan, if its going on pasta I'm picking the green plastic tube of presumably mostly filler 100% of the time. Brick parm lacks the proper texture and has too strong of a flavor. Green tube mystery powder I can pour onto my pasta in mounds that then absord the butter making a soft del…

This, I think, is a case of Different Thing Same Name.

The same way that coffee runs the gamut between the gnarliest of instant coffees to 3rd wave single-origin craft brews. Almost every step of the production chain is different, and while they're all technically coffee, they're basically different products, that get enjoyed in different contexts. Weirdly, I enjoy a 80s style black coffee when I'm at the greasy spoon around the corner - it just feels right.

Your Green Tube Mystery Powder is a product sold under a name that is probably technically correct (Parmesan) but the "real thing" is a product that behaves completely differently and doesn't meet your wants or needs.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#72

Post by almosthere »

xattt wrote: post #10

Tangential, but I recently noticed that natamycin, an antifungal agent, is being used in packages of shredded cheese as a preservative. I was a little taken aback on seeing it, given that antibiotic stewardship has been pushed so much in the last decade. I realize that natamycin is an antifungal and not an antibiotic, and that mechanisms of developing resistance are likely different between eukaryotes and prokaryotes…

If you look, you can still find shredded cheeses without this, but it's usually pretty rare now.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#73

Post by CGMthrowaway »

0_____0 wrote: post #25
xattt wrote: post #10

Tangential, but I recently noticed that natamycin, an antifungal agent, is being used in packages of shredded cheese as a preservative. I was a little taken aback on seeing it, given that antibiotic stewardship has been pushed so much in the last decade. I realize that natamycin is an antifungal and not an antibiotic, and that mechanisms of developing resistance are likely different between eukaryotes and prokaryotes…

Tangent on tangent - in addition to the antifungal there is also anticaking agent (nothing crazy, often some type of flour) that noticeably changes the mouthfeel of cheeses that come pre-shredded. If you notice a grainy texture in your food, try grating it off a brick instead!

Anti-caking agent can be either cellulose ("sawdust"), potato starch, or calcium sulfate

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#74

Post by 0_____0 »

Suppafly wrote: post #65
kube-system wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you buying cheese that's shredded at the deli or something? The processed stuff in the bag seems to be plainly noticeable to me... e.g. https://www.health.com/thmb/weSqKiqtCDqtEK3nJ5HWrViwQNM=/150...

>The processed stuff in the bag seems to be plainly noticeable to me... Sure, when you're eating it by the handful, but when it's melted in a dish (the thing people typically use it for) you aren't going to notice.

I wonder if there's a confounding factor here, because that's precisely where I tend to notice it the most. The anticaking agent lends a grainyness to an otherwise smooth foodstuff.

Are you thinking more of a cheese sauce, or cheese that gets melted into e.g. a burrito?

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#75

Post by talkingtab »

It seems wrong to me that most of what people now call cheese is not at all like what I think of as "real cheese". I have ended up making cheese and it is both fascinating, productive and tasty. While there are many "recipes" for cheeses, they are mainly focused on preparing the cheese for aging. These are often techniques, like washing the curd (gouda) or cheddaring (cheddar).

The aging part takes more work. I converted a 7.5 CU refrigerator using an Inkbird temp controller. That works surprisingly well. Currently I'm attempting to improve the humidity control with a humidity version of the Inkbird.

But highly recommended. I have everything I made (even the failures) with the exception of one of the first attempts.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#76

Post by robocat »

Suppafly wrote: post #65
kube-system wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you buying cheese that's shredded at the deli or something? The processed stuff in the bag seems to be plainly noticeable to me... e.g. https://www.health.com/thmb/weSqKiqtCDqtEK3nJ5HWrViwQNM=/150...

>The processed stuff in the bag seems to be plainly noticeable to me... Sure, when you're eating it by the handful, but when it's melted in a dish (the thing people typically use it for) you aren't going to notice.

I think you are generalizing from your own tastes.

Just because you don't notice something doesn't mean that others don't.

I started to notice this when I was hanging out with a very smart friend who worked as a restaurant cook. They just noticed heaps of stuff I didn't if we went out for a meal. I wasn't sure if it was training or natural ability.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#77

Post by Suppafly »

0_____0 wrote: post #74
Suppafly wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The processed stuff in the bag seems to be plainly noticeable to me... Sure, when you're eating it by the handful, but when it's melted in a dish (the thing people typically use it for) you aren't going to notice.

I wonder if there's a confounding factor here, because that's precisely where I tend to notice it the most. The anticaking agent lends a grainyness to an otherwise smooth foodstuff. Are you thinking more of a cheese sauce, or cheese that gets melted into e.g. a burrito?

My family eats a lot of shredded cheese, pre and home shredded, I've never noticed in anything melted nor in anything where it's only half melted like tacos. Any graininess that might be present would be far offset by the other ingredients, but honestly I've never tasted any graininess. The anticaking stuff isn't even grainy, so why would the resulting cheese be grainy? You can lick a piece of pre-shredded cheese and the anticaking stuff flavorlessly dissolves in your mouth. I honestly believe most of this "graininess" is imagined after people read about it on the internet or hear about it from cooking shows. People have convinced themselves that cellulose = wood (notice it's mentioned in this thread several times) and somehow lose the ability to critically think about it. While cellulose is an anticaking agent, I don't think I've ever seen it used for cheese. Typically you see cheese using a modified corn starch. The anti-caking agent can cause some issues if you're making cheese sauces specifically, but generally if you're making a cheese sauce you're mixing in other ingredients and then dumping it over macaroni or potatoes or something anyway and it won't matter.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#78

Post by kube-system »

Suppafly wrote: post #65
kube-system wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you buying cheese that's shredded at the deli or something? The processed stuff in the bag seems to be plainly noticeable to me... e.g. https://www.health.com/thmb/weSqKiqtCDqtEK3nJ5HWrViwQNM=/150...

>The processed stuff in the bag seems to be plainly noticeable to me... Sure, when you're eating it by the handful, but when it's melted in a dish (the thing people typically use it for) you aren't going to notice.

> when it's melted in a dish (the thing people typically use it for)

There are plenty of dishes that include unmelted shredded cheese. Salads and tacos are extremely common uses of shredded cheese here in the US.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#79

Post by Suppafly »

robocat wrote: post #76
Suppafly wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The processed stuff in the bag seems to be plainly noticeable to me... Sure, when you're eating it by the handful, but when it's melted in a dish (the thing people typically use it for) you aren't going to notice.

I think you are generalizing from your own tastes. Just because you don't notice something doesn't mean that others don't. I started to notice this when I was hanging out with a very smart friend who worked as a restaurant cook. They just noticed heaps of stuff I didn't if we went out for a meal. I wasn't sure if it was training or natural ability.

>I started to notice this when I was hanging out with a very smart friend who worked as a restaurant cook. They just noticed heaps of stuff I didn't if we went out for a meal.

Or they were being pretentious to try and impress you. I suspect even they can't tell if melted cheese within a dish started out pre-shredded or not.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#80

Post by goosejuice »

silisili wrote: post #41
kadoban wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, especially for things like cheese sauces I find that it's better to just grate it yourself. It will _not_ melt correctly otherwise, and the additives mess with sauces more than you'd think.

Agreed. I went down this rabbit hole last year, going as far as even buying sodium citrate that's supposed to help it melt together, with mixed results and awful taste. Never came close to anything resembling a well melted, good tasting sauce.

I wouldn't do this in a restaurant but a quick cheese sauce for something like nachos. Just pop some shredded cheese in the microwave with some heavy cream or half and half. Adjust to taste / texture. Stir well.

Mornay, citrate, and evaporated milk approaches work but I'm lazy so I just do the cream approach for "queso".

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