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Show HN: WhatsApp MCP Server

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Re: Show HN: WhatsApp MCP Server

#101

Post by echoangle »

dvrp wrote: post #100
echoangle wrote: post #49

As others have already said, think about what you're doing when you use this. If you connect a not-selhosted LLM to this, you're effectively uploading chat message with other people to a third-party server. The people you chat with have an expectation of privacy so this would probably be illegal in many jurisdictions.

Your information is gone the moment you utter words. I can also copy and paste the messages people send me.

> I can also copy and paste the messages people send me.

Sure you can, but the people can sue you if you paste it into something public. I don't know if you're making some deep philosophical comment but this is something people have been sued and lost for before.

Re: Show HN: WhatsApp MCP Server

#102

Post by dev0p »

_def wrote: post #8

If I find out someone pipes my chat messages into a LLM, I will not converse with that person anymore.

You should just assume that every single thing that you type into an electronic device made after the 90s gets piped into a LLM anyway

Re: Show HN: WhatsApp MCP Server

#103

Post by virgilp »

echoangle wrote: post #74
greenavocado wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people you chat with have an expectation of privacy so this would probably be illegal in many jurisdictions. Name one

Germany. You have a "allgemeines Persönlichkeitsrecht" (general personal rights?) that prevents other people from publishing information that's supposed to be private. Here's a case where someone published a facebook dm for example: https://openjur.de/u/636287.html

How would this stand up to the "I didn't do it, I probably got hacked!" defense? It's one thing to publish personal conversation, and another to have your conversations aggregated by some LLM (and if they leak plain-text, the "hacked" defense is even more plausible).

Re: Show HN: WhatsApp MCP Server

#104

Post by echoangle »

virgilp wrote: post #103
echoangle wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany. You have a "allgemeines Persönlichkeitsrecht" (general personal rights?) that prevents other people from publishing information that's supposed to be private. Here's a case where someone published a facebook dm for example: https://openjur.de/u/636287.html

How would this stand up to the "I didn't do it, I probably got hacked!" defense? It's one thing to publish personal conversation, and another to have your conversations aggregated by some LLM (and if they leak plain-text, the "hacked" defense is even more plausible).

That’s a separate issue. You might not be able to prove it as the victim, but that doesn’t make it legal.

Re: Show HN: WhatsApp MCP Server

#105

Post by virgilp »

echoangle wrote: post #104
virgilp wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would this stand up to the "I didn't do it, I probably got hacked!" defense? It's one thing to publish personal conversation, and another to have your conversations aggregated by some LLM (and if they leak plain-text, the "hacked" defense is even more plausible).

That’s a separate issue. You might not be able to prove it as the victim, but that doesn’t make it legal.

I would say it's a gray area at best/worst. I think the goal of the law is that you shouldn't e.g. take a screenshot of a message someone sent you in confidence/in private, and use it to make fun of, or shame them on a public forum (or whatever else - but a "targeted action").

This scenario however is "I take my personal data an run it through tools to make my life easier" (heck, even backup could fit the bill here). If I'm allowed to do that... am I allowed to do that only with tools that are perfectly secure? Can I send data to the cloud? (subcases: I own the cloud service & hardware/it's a nextcloud instance; I own it, but it's very poorly secured; Proton owns it and their terms of use promise to not disclose it; OpenAI owns it and their terms of use say they can make use of my data)

Re: Show HN: WhatsApp MCP Server

#107

Post by Aachen »

stavros wrote: post #61
Aachen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy usage is another. What would happen to world power consumption if 1% of WhatsApp chats would be fed to ChatGPT? A third reason besides privacy would be the purpose. Is the purpose generating automatic replies? Or automatic summaries because the recipient can't be bothered to read what I wrote? That would be a dick move and a good reason to object as well, in my opinion

> What would happen to world power consumption if 1% of WhatsApp chats would be fed to ChatGPT? The same thing that happens now, when 100% of power consumption is fed to other purposes. What's the problem with that?

Huh? It's additional power draw in the midst of an energy transition. It's not currently being used differently. What do you mean what's the problem with that?

Also don't forget it's just one of three aspects I can think of off the top of my head. This isn't the only issue with LLMs...

Edit: while typing this reply, I remembered a fourth: I've seen many people object morally/ethically to the training method in terms of taking other people's work for free and replicating it. I don't know how I stand on that one myself yet (it is awfully similar to a human learning and replicating creatively, but clearly on an inhuman scale, so idk) but that's yet another possible reason not to want this

Re: Show HN: WhatsApp MCP Server

#109

Post by echoangle »

virgilp wrote: post #105
echoangle wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a separate issue. You might not be able to prove it as the victim, but that doesn’t make it legal.

I would say it's a gray area at best/worst. I think the goal of the law is that you shouldn't e.g. take a screenshot of a message someone sent you in confidence/in private, and use it to make fun of, or shame them on a public forum (or whatever else - but a "targeted action"). This scenario however is "I take my personal data an run it through tools to make my life easier" (heck, even backup could fit the bill here).…

As a non-lawyer:

> am I allowed to do that only with tools that are perfectly secure?

No, actual security doesn't matter at all, but you have to think that they are reasonably secure.

> Can I send data to the cloud?

Yes, if you can expect the data to stay private

> (subcases: I own the cloud service & hardware/it's a nextcloud instance;

Yes

> I own it, but it's very poorly secured;

No

> Proton owns it and their terms of use promise to not disclose it;

Yes, if Proton is generally considered trustworthy.

> OpenAI owns it and their terms of use say they can make use of my data)

No

Re: Show HN: WhatsApp MCP Server

#110

Post by ahtihn »

CarlitosHighway wrote: post #9
samastur wrote: post #6

Cool work, but I'm more fascinated by your claim "99% of your life is stored in WhatsApp...". Not even remotely true for me even if it would encompass all messaging apps I use. I guess I'm just an old introvert, but it makes me wonder how life looks like for those for whom it is true.

The way to absolute dominance of WhatsApp with the Normies has't been sufficiently analyzed, I reckon. Somehow, WhatsApp managed to become extremely popular and heavily used by people who have trouble switching on a desktop pc. Even senior citizens have no trouble using it. Is it because they have a high motivation to use it? The UI / UX of WhatsApp surely isn't great, I'd even say it's quite bad. Where am I wrong? W…

WhatsApp was the first messaging app I remember that didn't require a user account.

People already had the phone numbers of people they knew so they just had to install the app and could immediately chat with any of their contacts.

Compared to chat apps with usernames where you started with an empty contact list, the barrier to start using it was very low. It was basically a drop-in replacement for SMS. Group chat and free messages were the reason to switch.

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