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Talkin’ about a Revolution

drb.ie

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Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#151

Post by 20after4 »

keiferski wrote: post #42
nonrandomstring wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not limited to philosophy. All of academia is broken this way. Sadly, we think the only alternative is "industry", an equally broken set of incentives. That limits fronts of human progress to two types. We either get committee-driven institutional science leveraging huge resources, supercomputers, particle accelerators - blighted by cutthroat competition, opaque "publishing" and fraud - or radical popu…

Agreed and that is a really good, but simple, point that I didn't realize as clearly before: there is no real alternative to the academia vs. industry dichotomy. What is needed might be a third option that allows for exploration without the pressures of profits or publications.

The traditional 3rd option was the patronage by a rich benefactor. The modern version is patreon. It's imperfect but seems to work pretty well for some.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#153

Post by dullcrisp »

127 wrote: post #108
fransje26 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and cannot cope with things going back to normal. I would argue that we worked our way to the post cold-war golden age, and then destroyed it with greed, which led to financial pain, which led to political nonsense, which led to the rubbish we are in right now. So the period we are in right now is not the "back to normal" phase, but an actual decrease of human evolution. Not dissimilar to things that happened in th…

I would add pride, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony, and sloth. (CatGPT did a pretty good job: https://dpaste.com/HTS9DWRNZ-preview )

Wait tell me more about CatGPT

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#154

Post by cess11 »

boxed wrote: post #113
cess11 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likud is a mainstream party in Israel. Their prime minister has been making genocidal and atrocious statements for a very long time. Mainstream television in Israel has been in overdrive to secure popular consent for absolutely obscene crimes for more than one and a half year. 80% of israeli jews in Israel approve of genocidal treatment of palestinians in the Gaza strip in the form of ethnic cleansing, while 14% beli…

> genocidal treatment of palestinians in the Gaza strip in the form of ethnic cleansing Well that made no sense. Genocide is killing people. Ethnic cleansing is moving people. Those are extremely different things. The entire Muslim world has already done a 99% ethnic cleansing of Jews, and where is the outrage? That's 10x the number of people that live in Gaza.

No, the crime of genocide can be perpetrated through non-fatal means, through "serious bodily or mental harm" as the convention puts it. Displacement, starvation, the eradication of homes and records, and so on, are common tactics applied by genocidal regimes.

The state of Israel systematically destroys educational institutions, libraries, archives, historical monuments and buildings, cemeteries, homes, hospitals, agrarian land, and more, according to leading politicians and pundits with the explicit intent to erase the palestinians from the land they're indigenous to. Israeli palestinians are called "arab" as part of this policy.

The ambition to establish a zionist colony and move the region's jews there caused a lot of outrage at the time, in part because the zionist movement had engaged in terrorism and other atrocities for decades already and wasn't exactly received as a welcome innovation in western antisemitism. It also came right after the influence of the previous innovation had subsided, i.e. nazi antisemitism.

US and british planes moved most of the jews from Iraq, Yemen and so on, so claiming that is was done by "the entire Muslim world" is blatantly false. In Indonesia the plight and flight of the jews was mainly caused by imperial Japan, who put pretty much the entire jewish community in labour camps. Today indonesian antisemitism is strongly connected to israeli atrocities and the antisemitic conflation of judaism and the state of Israel that zionists insist on.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#155

Post by TroubledTrumpet »

davedx wrote: post #139
TeMPOraL wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a reason it's called a Culture War and not a Culture Mild Disagreement. Culture war at this point is more than a decade old. It did not start with Project 2025. It started on the Internet. Also, GP said people do not change all that much morally. That much is true. Organizations change fast. Societies change slower. The acted on rules are a combination of three, but it's important to be aware of the distinc…

I'm not sure that makes sense to me; how do society's moral rules change (slowly) but peoples' moral rules don't/change little? I mean I can think of some isolated examples like pirating video content, but generally a society's moral rules reflect its constituents; where else do those rules come from, if not its people?

I would think that the distinction lies in the time it takes to reach consensus. An individual person's moral values may change rapidly without the need for external validation. A book club may take a few weeks of debate over a heavily philosophical book to modify the perceived moral values of the group as a whole. But stretching large moral shifts across an entire populace would probably take more time and a more concerted effort to accomplish. New ideas or values need time to be sorted, whether they be picked up into the mainstream view or dropped into unfavourability.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#156

Post by wormlord »

lynx97 wrote: post #28
eddythompson80 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some fantasy about how millions of leftists voters either boycotted the election or voted for Trump because of Biden’s position on Gaza. Complete nonsense of course, but it’s a popular conspiracy theory among certain democrats circles. It was also funny to see democrats suddenly realizing that Arab Americans vote republican. They always have and they always will. Just like how Latino Americans, and generally most imm…

The left pretty much falls into the same trap all around the world. Its almost funny to watch when a leftist realises that immigrants are right-leaning. The typical reaction is to fall back to elitism and claim those immigrants must be stupid somehow.

I don't think you mean leftists you mean liberals. Leftists ostensibly have a materialist understanding of the world, not idealist. Of course many immigrants are right-wing, the US exported counter-revolution globally during the 20th century.

I went to eat out at a Guatemalan restaurant the other day and they had a poster for a right-wing ultranationalist paramilitary group.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mano_Blanca

Is it shocking? Not at all. I have heard the same violent rhetoric from petit bourgeois in Colombia and in the USA because the exact same forces of reaction in the USA have been at work globally for decades.

> Its almost funny to watch when a leftist realises that immigrants are right-leaning

The claim that all immigrants are right-leaning is a generalization.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#157

Post by AnimalMuppet »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #122
lynx97 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love if the public discourse would allow for more diversity of opinions. Unfortunately, where I come from, the left has simplified the rhetoric to "If you are of a different opinion then we are, you are either badly educated (read, stupid) or a nazi." Unfortunately, this elitist attitude has only contributed to the divide of the people.

I don't know what to tell you, I'm never going to be happy about people voting against my rights or about secret police disappearing people and ignoring the court system

You seem to be completely ignoring lynx97's actual point.

If you're not happy about those things, stop telling everyone who disagree with you how stupid they are and how they're literal Nazis. Then at least some of those who disagree with you on some issues will be less driven to vote for the people whose positions appall you.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#158

Post by [deleted] »

suraci wrote: post #29
graemep wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or the Uighur genocide, or many other mass murders around the world.

the Uighur genocide is the true genocide, it is happening in the real world with tons of pictures and videos as evidence the Palestinian genocide is a fake genocide, it is propaganda pushed by Chinese and Russian to make Israel and the US looks bad

[deleted]

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#159

Post by jjice »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #46
dudefeliciano wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument is not really credible to me, saying that democrats did not vote or voted republican because Harris (and Biden before her) were too favorable towards Israel, ignores the fact that it was glaringly obvious that trump would be even more favorable towards Israel.

I have certainly heard people say that they couldn't support Harris because the Biden administration was too close to Israel, so instead didn't vote at all. I know it doesn't make sense to hand the election to somebody objectively worse on an issue they claim to care about, but there it is. I suspect that whole thing was driven by some clever folks trying to get Trump into power.

I have multiple people in my life that followed this mindset as well, to offer some more anecdata.

I never got a rationale when asked, which still perplexes me considering these people weren’t fans of the republicans in this past race.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#160

Post by freeopinion »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #102
TeMPOraL wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a reason it's called a Culture War and not a Culture Mild Disagreement. Culture war at this point is more than a decade old. It did not start with Project 2025. It started on the Internet. Also, GP said people do not change all that much morally. That much is true. Organizations change fast. Societies change slower. The acted on rules are a combination of three, but it's important to be aware of the distinc…

Frankly, the culture war started in earnest in the late 60s.

So you weren't around for the 20s? The last 20s?
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