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Talkin’ about a Revolution

drb.ie

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Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#51

Post by amanaplanacanal »

mardifoufs wrote: post #43
belter wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the genocide contributed to bringing Trump to power Only because folks who refused to vote for Kamala said they could not stand her support of Israel policies :-) Like poor voters in the Midwest, you can always count on a certain electorate, to vote against their own interests and what they care about...

How is not voting for the administration that enabled and did absolutely nothing to stop the genocide of their relatives or community in Gaza voting against their self interest? You realize that the deaths that happened in Gaza are probably more important than whatever grievances you have against Trump for some people? We are talking about tens of thousands of deaths, directly enabled by the previous administration (…

You think Trump is going to do better? Looks to me like he is doubling down on it.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#52

Post by totetsu »

boxed wrote: post #27
danknuggetz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just it though, the democratic and republican parties ran on Israel apartheid maintenance since the end of the second world war. And even in the face of a genocide, the democrats as a national party held the line and refused to consider the crime against humanity unfolding before them. How is electing them supposed to be taken? Should they continue to ignore human rights violations? There was no other way to s…

20% of the population of Israel are Palestinians with full rights. Some were killed 7/10. There's a muslim party in the Knesset. Remind me again: how many black parties had representation in apartheid South Africa? You are confused because Israel HAS A apartheid state: the settlements (a small part of Israel in total). But that's not the same as Israel IS A apartheid state. If you can't separate HAS A from IS A you w…

> There's a muslim party in the Knesset. here is how they are treated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avEhWwouQ8k&lc=Ugz8DeAmwrGXX...

>20% of the population of Israel are Palestinians with full rights. full rights to be evicted and have their homes demolished. https://www.newarab.com/news/land-ours-bedouins-fight-explus...

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#53

Post by benzayb »

"Hegel, installed from above, by the powers that be, as the certified Great Philosopher, was a flat-headed, insipid, nauseating, illiterate charlatan, who reached the pinnacle of audacity in scribbling together and dishing up the craziest mystifying nonsense. This nonsense has been noisily proclaimed as immortal wisdom by mercenary followers and readily accepted as such by all fools, who thus joined into as perfect a chorus of admiration as had ever been heard before. The extensive field of spiritual influence with which Hegel was furnished by those in power has enabled him to achieve the intellectual corruption of a whole generation."

-- Schopenhauer

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#54

Post by MrsPeaches »

Excellent book on the theme using Zambia in the 70s as a case study:

Expectations of Modernity explores the social and cultural responses to a prolonged period of sharp economic decline. [1]

"From now on, it's just down, down, down..." sighed one informant (p. 13). As Ferguson argues, "Zambia's recent crisis is not only an economic crisis but a crisis of meaning, in which the way people are able to understand their experi- ence and imbue it with significance and dignity has (for many) been dramatical- ly eroded" (p.15). [2]

Not that long afterwards there was a revolution.

[1] https://www.ucpress.edu/books/expectations-of-modernity/pape...

[2] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/002190960303800...

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#55

Post by baxtr »

graemep wrote: post #19

The world gets both better and worse. it is something that I regularly get voted down for saying here, but IMO the west is unduly pessimist because it had a golden age from winning the cold war until the late 2000s, took an overly optimistic view of the future and the inevitability of progress (remember "the end of history") and cannot cope with things going back to normal. Things get better, sometimes they get worse…

I talked to a history professor recently and asked him how he viewed the whole situation.

He leaned back, thought for a bit and answered:

It’ll be all fine on a 200 years perspective, democracy will continue to increase its footprint, people will lead better lives.

It’s the next 30 years I’m worried about.

PS: ofc, I have no clue if he’s right or not. But I thought it’s an interesting take to share.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#56

Post by roenxi »

DeathArrow wrote: post #17

[flagged]

That seems a bit unfair to pin it on Hegel. Most of the damage could have been avoided if people like Mao were champions of liberal values - however the fact that he was in a position of power at all was because he came from a rather backwards society that didn't champion liberal values. It is a shame the Chinese Republicans didn't manage to take, but to say there was a lot going on in China at any given moment would be an understatement.

At any point in the chain of events people could move towards liberalism and market economies, then become more prosperous. We've even got case studies where that was tried - the USSR - and a lot went wrong but it still went much better than most of the other experiments out of the 1900s. China too, eventually, where we can't really say what the end result is going to be but it has been an amazing journey so far.

The issue wasn't with these thinkers, it looks a lot more like any deviation from liberalism is a terrible mistake and it is really only a competition for who can be most liberal on the important issues (which, unfortunately, are only revealed with a little hindsight).

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#57

Post by cess11 »

suraci wrote: post #29
graemep wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or the Uighur genocide, or many other mass murders around the world.

the Uighur genocide is the true genocide, it is happening in the real world with tons of pictures and videos as evidence the Palestinian genocide is a fake genocide, it is propaganda pushed by Chinese and Russian to make Israel and the US looks bad

Genocide is a crime that consists of the combination of other crimes and a particular intent. Israeli politicians routinely declare this intent in mass media while they are committing actions that are listed in the description of the crime of genocide.

Russia has a tentative, informal truce with Israel on this issue, a 'you get atrocities in Palestine and we get atrocities elsewhere' kind of deal, and China aims to look neutral while supporting Israel for profit, e.g. in the Haifa harbour.

3% of israeli jews would consider it immoral to ethnically cleanse the Gaza strip according to recent polls. It's a thoroughly genocidal society, as is obvious to anyone looking at israeli press and television. The israeli state is also very, very aggressive towards its neighbours, occupying parts of several of them, acting in breach of a peace agreement with another, participating in military exercises as a threat to yet another, and so on. It can do this due to US bullying of allies and enemies alike.

Soldiers in the IDF publicly admit to and document atrocities they're committing, voluntarily, which is well known and easy to confirm. I usually recommend looking through material collected by ytirawi and ireallyhateyou on xcancel.com, because it only takes a few seconds to start seeing photos of inexcusable acts and rhetoric.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#58

Post by dataflow »

baxtr wrote: post #55
graemep wrote: post #19

The world gets both better and worse. it is something that I regularly get voted down for saying here, but IMO the west is unduly pessimist because it had a golden age from winning the cold war until the late 2000s, took an overly optimistic view of the future and the inevitability of progress (remember "the end of history") and cannot cope with things going back to normal. Things get better, sometimes they get worse…

I talked to a history professor recently and asked him how he viewed the whole situation. He leaned back, thought for a bit and answered: It’ll be all fine on a 200 years perspective, democracy will continue to increase its footprint, people will lead better lives. It’s the next 30 years I’m worried about. PS: ofc, I have no clue if he’s right or not. But I thought it’s an interesting take to share.

"Fine"? Did the history professor consider anything other than history or politics? The way global warming and our general destruction of nature is going (not just species or climate but also e.g. depletion of groundwater in a lot of heavily populated areas), I'm not sure democracy will be our biggest concern in 200 years' time.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#59

Post by bryanrasmussen »

benzayb wrote: post #53

"Hegel, installed from above, by the powers that be, as the certified Great Philosopher, was a flat-headed, insipid, nauseating, illiterate charlatan, who reached the pinnacle of audacity in scribbling together and dishing up the craziest mystifying nonsense. This nonsense has been noisily proclaimed as immortal wisdom by mercenary followers and readily accepted as such by all fools, who thus joined into as perfect a…

Schopenhauer! He's one of the guys in the quotes of the big time jerks article!

https://medium.com/luminasticity/quotes-of-the-big-time-jerk...

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