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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#301

Post by jmyeet »

p1necone wrote: post #174
twright wrote: post #122

This is a really good compilation that should make any "free-speech absolutist" reconsider their support for the current administration. In my understanding, the commonplace interpretation of the first amendment is largely due to a series of landmark cases through the early to mid-20th century. A lot of expansions were provided to the amendment that have been taken for granted since then and we are now going to see c…

I'm not really convinced more than a vanishingly small percentage of people who self identify as "free speech absolutists" are using that term in good faith. Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. Anecdotally I've noticed these sorts of people much less often, at least on here as of late. Methinks their deniabilit…

The only free speech absolutist in America is Noam Chomsky. He's the only one.

Whenever conservatives talk about "free speech" just substitute "hate speech" because that's what they mean. Elon Musk has called himself a free speech absolutist while banning people from Twitter for hurting his feelings, for being journalists who are remotely critical of him, for making fun of him, for reporting ATC public data on the location of his private jet and for making jokes.

The media is absolutely complicit in not challenging the countless lies told by Republicans.

What didn't get a lot of attention is how Trump sued a bunch of media outlets (eg ABC/Disney) to defamation. These are cases he absolutely could not win on the merits. ABC presenter George Stephanopoulos made the on-air claim Trump was "liable for rape" after he lost the E. Jean Carroll case. Disney agreed to pay ~$16 million in what has all the apperances of a payoff.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#302

Post by smallmancontrov »

NotMichaelBay wrote: post #282
sepositus wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people don't like being told to what say/think/do. It turns out if you bully those people enough they elect a dictator. It wasn't and still isn't a surprise to me.

I think what we know about disinformation shows people don't have to actually be bullied, they just have to think they're being bullied. Disinformation is cheap and apparently yields great returns.

[flagged]

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#303

Post by outside1234 »

kmeisthax wrote: post #14
tombert wrote: post #3

I understand why these things have to be posted, but I would be lying if I said that I wasn't utterly exhausted by the constant shit that the Trump administration is spitting at us. I mean, I get it, bad shit needs to be reported on, the Trump admin does a lot of bad shit, it makes sense, but it's just extremely tiring. I know that's kind of the point, to bombard us with all this shit all at once so that we are exhau…

You might have an interest in this: https://globalcomment.com/how-to-defeat-an-autocrat-flocking...

Yes - we ALL have to flock together around the basic concepts that unite us. I think this is what we are seeing with the Tesla protests and we need to push harder to get to the 3.5% of the population that forces the system to adjust.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#304

Post by ta8645 »

outside1234 wrote: post #283
ta8645 wrote: post #275

It's been under attack a lot longer than the current administration. "free-speech does not mean freedom from consequences", "free speech does not apply to hate-speech", "we must suppress and limit the spread of misinformation", It really seems that people do not believe in free speech anymore, and only appeal to it as a principle to defend themselves, never to defend those they disagree with.

Don’t both-sides this. 99% of the attacks have been under the Trump administration.

Trump is obviously attacking free-speech, but the attacks have been going on by both sides. The examples I gave are _very_ prevalent and common, and not coming from the Trump camp. Very few people seem to actually believe in free speech, when it comes to protecting their political rivals... which is the only place the principle actually much matters.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#305

Post by russelg »

RachelF wrote: post #215
twright wrote: post #122

This is a really good compilation that should make any "free-speech absolutist" reconsider their support for the current administration. In my understanding, the commonplace interpretation of the first amendment is largely due to a series of landmark cases through the early to mid-20th century. A lot of expansions were provided to the amendment that have been taken for granted since then and we are now going to see c…

One thing not on the list (yet) is the freezing of protesters' bank accounts that happened in Canada. Or the de-banking that happens to politicians in the UK. Or the jailing of whistleblower lawyers that happens in Australia.

I wonder what any of those have to do with a USA constitutional matter?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#306

Post by starchild3001 »

luhsprwhk wrote: post #226
starchild3001 wrote: post #82

I thought this country was founded on the principles of enlightenment. And the same principles made it a world leader. Now that enlightenment values are actively being dismantled what next can we expect?

It wasn’t America's principles that made it the world leader at the time—it was the fact that, unlike other major powers, it emerged from the world wars largely unscathed. Both peace settlements following the wars were widely criticized as unstable and unlikely to last, and they didn't.

I'd think peace after WWII lasted for 77 years (between 1945-2022 until the ukraine war broke out which appears to be the beginning of a new hot war).

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#307

Post by aprilthird2021 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #291
sega_sai wrote: post #78

As a person who lived in the States for a bit, and listened to a lot of news, I remember always this almost fawning over the Founding Fathers, checks and balances and great American constitution. It is remarkable, how easy it all goes, and most people don't do anything (i.e. out of 100 top law firms, only a handful joined the lawsuit against the government, etc.)

As an American, I agree - I'm pretty surprised at how nakedly transparent the whole thing has been. One basic example - I thought pretty much everyone agreed that at least some level of due process is just inherent to the rights of everyone in the US. When I hear administration figures arguing that flying the Venezuelans to El Salvadoran prisons is a good thing because "they're really bad dudes", I think "OK, and we'…

They started this tactic of "They're bad dudes trust us don't need a trial" during the Bush administration and many many people pointed out this would come to our shores soon, and it did and it's here again.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#308

Post by aprilthird2021 »

boroboro4 wrote: post #244
pfo32 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its cooked everywhere. Thank the Attention Economy. All sides are trapped by in a fight over finite Attention. Its like the world war but instead of land its Views/Clicks/Likes. Since Attention is a finite non growing pool the trap is set. One day some one gets all the fish and another its someone else. Anyone who has any sense wouldn't waste any energy being part of such a stupid game cause its eventually lose lose.…

While I’m with you on attention economy I think it’s simplification of what’s going on: – we had very dysfunctional legislature for last 20+ years – quality of life is falling for majority of people This contributes to feeling of unfairness in the society which pushes authoritarian and populist ideas.

I hate that everywhere in the world when QoL falls people elect idiot authoritarians who make QoL worse

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#309

Post by someothherguyy »

getnormality wrote: post #249
twright wrote: post #122

This is a really good compilation that should make any "free-speech absolutist" reconsider their support for the current administration. In my understanding, the commonplace interpretation of the first amendment is largely due to a series of landmark cases through the early to mid-20th century. A lot of expansions were provided to the amendment that have been taken for granted since then and we are now going to see c…

I would prefer a higher signal to noise ratio. For example, Radio Free Asia is a project of the federal government. Defunding it is a political decision. Freedom of the press does not mean the government is obligated to fund media nonprofits it has funded in the past. If those sounding alarms don't distinguish between political decisions they disagree with and violations of our rights, they will lose credibility ala…

RFA is funded by USAGM a independent agency of the US federal government. Do you argue against the idea of an independent agency? Are you saying its dismantlement was legal?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Agency_for_Global_Media

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_Un...

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#310

Post by russdill »

djrj477dhsnv wrote: post #222
russdill wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the government "expressed a lot of frustration" and meta eventually agreed... And says they would make a different decision in the future, making it clear that taking down the information was a voluntary choice.

Any large organization that is subject to regulatory oversight can not simply choose to ignore the government when it expresses "a lot of frustration" and not expect retaliation. Selective enforcement and ambiguous rules are the very effective sticks that governments use all the time against whomever doesn't fall in line.

They've made clear cases where they refused government requests. Which cases ended in some kind of enforcement? It's hard for it to be selective prosecution when none of it ended in prosecution.
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