How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack • Hacker News Board

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#231

Post by GrumpyCat42 » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 2:59 AM UTC

girvo wrote: post #170

GrumpyCat42 wrote: post #133

What Brian and a lot of the commenters here need to realize is that online outrage does not help progressive causes in the slightest. While the examples in his article are valid & concerning, especially as talks of a third Trump term have started, I truly can't see anyone changing their mind because the response to it has been completely ineffective and tone-deaf: Instead of a solid, modern, coherent plan to keep the…

I didn't see any "online outrage" from Brian here, just a sadly sober listing of all the direct attacks on the first amendment, with sources and explanation. Heck, it's not even political despite the screeching to the contrary. You're right that action must be taken too, but action does require an understanding of the battlefield one is entering.

YMMV, but I would argue that claiming Trump is waging an unprecedented attack against the first amendment, accompanied by a picture of the first amendment ripped in half, is calling for (rightful) outrage and is inherently political. The post is very informational and well-cited, but it's not the changing hearts and minds of those it needs to.

Action has to be taken, but by people with the power to change things -- namely democratic leadership, who have the funds & influence (albeit dwindling). Do they understand the battlefield they're entering? I don't think so, as I think they're sticking to that same outrage strategy.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#232

Post by sorcerer-mar » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 3:00 AM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #203

mptest wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? The video is all that matters, not the article... >we don't know wha tthat woman did. All she did was write a piece against israel, and either way, her due process was violated, which is the problem here. She was not charged with any crimes... How are you seriously hung up on the video source when there's a video of masked, plain clothes federal agents "arresting" a random PhD student with no warrant, and…

[flagged]

Uhhh because 1) she hasn't been charged and 2) Marco Rubio has, on multiple occasions, said that it's because "no country in the world would keep a social activist that comes in and tears up our university campuses."

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/rumeysa-ozturk-tufts-ic...

Another case is Badar Khan Suni who is here on a valid student visa, and DHS said they targeted for “actively spreading Hamas propaganda and promoting antisemitism on social media.”

Here's DHS itself: https://x.com/TriciaOhio/status/1902524674291966261

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#233

Post by pmarreck » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 3:01 AM UTC

clipsy wrote: post #228

pmarreck wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> How do you know she wasn't being arrested for one here? Perhaps we could have some sort of public trial where some of her peers -- let's say a dozen -- could hear the facts and decide on whether she's committed a crime.

See my edited response (that you replied to)

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#234

Post by clipsy » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 3:01 AM UTC

sepositus wrote: post #217

dclowd9901 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you look at it from the perspective of faithless reporting like that from Fox News and Newsmax, the information pipeline has been selling a narrative that the left has been on an authoritarian tear since Obama. The newscasts are chilling: every one of them for more than two decades has taken a position that the left is an existential threat to the United States. With that kind of context, it's really no wond…

A lot of people don't like being told to what say/think/do. It turns out if you bully those people enough they elect a dictator. It wasn't and still isn't a surprise to me.

Perhaps we made the mistake of thinking that the people who "don't like being told to what[sic] say/think/do" actually had something resembling principles rather than a petty and childish desire to dictate what others are allowed to say/think/do.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#235

Post by smallmancontrov » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 3:01 AM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #195

smallmancontrov wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "nothing ever changes" heuristic fails catastrophically on occasion. It's better to be prepared.

Yes. I'm well-aware of the analogy of the slowly boiled frog, etc. But it's also the slippery-slope fallacy, so... Why are we assuming facts here before we know of them? She is a Turkish national on a student visa. Those folks do NOT (like it or not) have the same rights as citizens. You cannot, for example, support (not saying she's done this, just saying this is the law) an organization designated as an FTO, as a "…

Because it's not a slow boil, not anymore. The executive is flaunting TROs, conducting deportations without due process, openly flirting with the idea of stripping citizenship and talking about a third term.

Anyone who should have payed attention to Project 2025 but "remained calm" instead should now pay attention to the McCarthy II plan from the same source. They are telling us who they are and we should listen to them.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#236

Post by mptest » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 3:02 AM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #203

mptest wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? The video is all that matters, not the article... >we don't know wha tthat woman did. All she did was write a piece against israel, and either way, her due process was violated, which is the problem here. She was not charged with any crimes... How are you seriously hung up on the video source when there's a video of masked, plain clothes federal agents "arresting" a random PhD student with no warrant, and…

[flagged]

Because the agency that arrested her told us why she was arrested, and it was "supporting terrorism" ie writing an oped opposing israel's genocide, when they certainly have no hesitation to mention the crimes when they are there??

Oh and the agency already has a well documented history of arresting innocent people? Look up "ice collateral arrests" "autism awareness deportation" or "soccer coach deported for real madrid inspired tattoo" or "tourist arrested" or "tourist held at border" to get a litany of examples. I'm sorry I pay closer attention to the erasure of our civil liberties than you do.

Of course I'm not judging the situation based solely on the video. I actually read about the case, but when I searched for the video that was just the first link.

I (clearly falsely) expected six plainclothes feds tossing a PhD student in to the back of an unmarked van would resonate more with the crowd here... I figured if you cared you'd look more in to it, rather than rush to defend the regime... Silly me, I guess.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#237

Post by jerlam » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 3:03 AM UTC

mig39 wrote: post #221

rudedogg wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Government has checks and balances. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers#Checks_an...

I understand that, but the people literally voted for someone who promised to get rid of checks and balances, and rule as a dictator. Isn't that what they wanted?

An oversimplification is that people voted against the status quo, not necessarily "for" Trump. Since the US only has a two-party system, the actual policies were irrelevant.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#238

Post by wredcoll » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 3:03 AM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #197

macintux wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This republican form of government was explicitly created to insulate law and justice from the direct will of the public.

So whose preferences should policy reflect? NGO presidents? Tech company employees in gatekeeper positions? Editorial column writers? Why these people and not the public? What gives them the right to rule?

Are you asking why america has a republican form of government designed to minimize the power of the majority of the population?

Well, partly because travel and communications were extremely slow when the constitution was written, but mostly because the rich land owners (and white males) were the ones writing it.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#239

Post by outer_web » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 3:03 AM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #203

mptest wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? The video is all that matters, not the article... >we don't know wha tthat woman did. All she did was write a piece against israel, and either way, her due process was violated, which is the problem here. She was not charged with any crimes... How are you seriously hung up on the video source when there's a video of masked, plain clothes federal agents "arresting" a random PhD student with no warrant, and…

[flagged]

Can you link us the indictment please?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#240

Post by pmarreck » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 3:03 AM UTC

esalman wrote: post #184

It started with the Free Palestine protesters. Tesla protesters are next. Citizens will be shipped to El Salvador, non-citizens to where they came from.

[flagged]