Everyone knows all the apps on your phone • Hacker News Board

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#181

Post by chme » Sun, Mar 30, 2025, 7:08 AM UTC

turblety wrote: post #137

I still, will never understand the need for native "Apps". To this day, I have never seen an "App" that couldn't simply have been a website/webapp. Most of them would likely be improved by being a webapp. The only benefits I can see of "Apps", are the developer get's access to private information they really don't need. Yeah, they get to be on the "App Store". But the "App Store" is a totally unnecessary concept intr…

I get your point partially. All these apps that companies put out in order to collect and manage shopping tokens or to contact their customer service would have been much better as a website.

However I still do like to have apps on my devices that just work offline, without distributing my data across services I do not control. And I also do not want to depend on a internet connection, when I am anywhere.

I like my offline Osmand/Organic Maps app to show me the trails when I am somewhere in the woods or mountains. I like my apps that instead on using some third party server, connect directly to my other local devices to share data.

IMO all (where possible) apps should be developed offline first, and only require internet when necessary, and those apps that cannot work without internet should be web apps, they do not need to be on my devices.

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#182

Post by rzz3 » Sun, Mar 30, 2025, 7:13 AM UTC

turblety wrote: post #137

I still, will never understand the need for native "Apps". To this day, I have never seen an "App" that couldn't simply have been a website/webapp. Most of them would likely be improved by being a webapp. The only benefits I can see of "Apps", are the developer get's access to private information they really don't need. Yeah, they get to be on the "App Store". But the "App Store" is a totally unnecessary concept intr…

Im sorry. I really just can’t understand or relate to this at all. Mobile web still feels like such a terrible experience, and apps generally don’t. When’s the last time you tried booking a flight on mobile web? And how do you deal with all of the real estate the browser steals? Having to log in every time when the app can just cache my authentication and FaceID me?

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#183

Post by jspdown » Sun, Mar 30, 2025, 7:13 AM UTC

ablob wrote: post #160

turblety wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yeah. While this is mostly implemented terrible, a web app can absolutely do this for you using service workers. So you can install a webapp to your homescreen and use it without an internet connection at all.

In that case the only difference between a webapp and a normal app would be the permissions, wouldn't it?

Permissions and performances.

But we could argue that if webapps were more used on mobiles, new APIs would have been opened to facilitate cross-app integrations.

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#184

Post by PaulRobinson » Sun, Mar 30, 2025, 7:18 AM UTC

piyuv wrote: post #27

andsoitis wrote: post #26

> everyone knows all the alls on your phone On Android phones. iPhone doesn’t have this privacy deficiency.

Right, only Apple knows, but it’s ok, they’re the good guys

Sort of. They have a list of apps you've bought/installed through app store, and they can figure out what you've deleted based on what your phone is pinging for update checks on.

If they went beyond that, or disclosed that knowledge, or allowed an app to get that manifest without your permission, it would destroy their brand image built around privacy, in a way that would cause long-term irreparable damage.

They decided to not comply with laws compelling them to add back doors to optional encryption on iCloud storage, rather than tarnish that image, because they know how valuable that trust is.

You can dump on Apple all you want, but compared to Google who plead with people to use their browser and phones to improve adtech surveillance they can monetize, I think they're doing OK and are a lot more trustworthy.

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#185

Post by Yaggo » Sun, Mar 30, 2025, 7:18 AM UTC

The title should read: "Everyone knows all the apps on your Android phone"

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#186

Post by nxjx » Sun, Mar 30, 2025, 7:19 AM UTC

turblety wrote: post #137

I still, will never understand the need for native "Apps". To this day, I have never seen an "App" that couldn't simply have been a website/webapp. Most of them would likely be improved by being a webapp. The only benefits I can see of "Apps", are the developer get's access to private information they really don't need. Yeah, they get to be on the "App Store". But the "App Store" is a totally unnecessary concept intr…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_economy

Becoming the middle man is the default model that supports scale. No one has come up with anything else to support a world where avg disposable income is close to 0

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#187

Post by ezequiel-garzon » Sun, Mar 30, 2025, 7:20 AM UTC

turblety wrote: post #137

I still, will never understand the need for native "Apps". To this day, I have never seen an "App" that couldn't simply have been a website/webapp. Most of them would likely be improved by being a webapp. The only benefits I can see of "Apps", are the developer get's access to private information they really don't need. Yeah, they get to be on the "App Store". But the "App Store" is a totally unnecessary concept intr…

In the case of termux, by far my favorite app, I have more than 2GB of locally installed packages. How would that work with a browser?

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#188

Post by setopt » Sun, Mar 30, 2025, 7:20 AM UTC

turblety wrote: post #137

I still, will never understand the need for native "Apps". To this day, I have never seen an "App" that couldn't simply have been a website/webapp. Most of them would likely be improved by being a webapp. The only benefits I can see of "Apps", are the developer get's access to private information they really don't need. Yeah, they get to be on the "App Store". But the "App Store" is a totally unnecessary concept intr…

> I still, will never understand the need for native "Apps". To this day, I have never seen an "App" that couldn't simply have been a website/webapp.

In cases where a native app and web app are both available on iOS, there’s often a huge difference in battery usage and sluggishness. Also, as a sibling poster mentioned, I like having fully “offline” apps as well, for example for maps and notes.

I’m not saying that I like how Apple and Google have done this in practice, but I don’t think going webapp-only is the future. For the same reason I won’t replace my real computer with a Chromebook for the foreseeable future.

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#189

Post by qwe----3 » Sun, Mar 30, 2025, 7:21 AM UTC

photonthug wrote: post #165

> It's worth acknowledging that there are some legitimate reasons for an app to check which other apps are installed on your phone. For example, an app might check which UPI apps are installed to show relevant payment options. Nope! Nope, nope, nope. If you're wondering how we got into this situation.. well, it's exactly stuff like this. Weird to see someone who's digging into it at all also making excuses for it. No…

> "I want to avoid a single extra click once every other month, so I guess I better irrevocably open my data/phone/life up completely to megacorp forever"

Nah, it's super annoying when I click on a link and don't get redirected to the native app. This happens way more then once a month. Web experiences are much worse for many things.

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#190

Post by josfredo » Sun, Mar 30, 2025, 7:21 AM UTC

baxtr wrote: post #177

sph wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP used hyperbole but was not all wrong. The issue is that most native apps could very well have been web apps. I appreciate that on iOS adding a web app to homescreen is possible, albeit obscure and not many use that feature. I hate that Firefox never really supported PWA for some unfathomable reason.

Exactly. But GP deliberately said all, not most or many. GPs comment is something that people in politics would called sensational. Extreme rhetoric is great for upvotes because it stirs emotions but it’s not rational.

I think it’s completely justifiable, since it illustrates the core of the idea. Also, HN users, unlike voters, can see through the framing. If anything, it’s a great way to spark a debate.