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ToS;DR — TL;DR for Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

tos-dr.info

71–80 of 131 posts

Re: ToS;DR — TL;DR for Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

#71
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, neither is exactly terminology familiar with the average user, who I think they're trying to reach out to here. Both are clever, but known mostly by avid Internet users or nerds.

Certainly. But I think people who care what provisions the TOS of a service contain are the exception and not the average person.

I think one of the goals with providing brief, easy to read summaries can (and should) be expanding the number of people who care what is in the TOS.

Re: ToS;DR — TL;DR for Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

#72
post #33
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I just assumed "Read the Details" would send me to the ToS! Maybe that should be renamed too :)

I also think it's a poor choice. What do you suggest?

maybe "Rationale", but that sounds complicated as well.

Re: ToS;DR — TL;DR for Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

#73
post #51
post #18

Great concept and smart execution. A suggestion - rather than rating "A" through "E" why not change to the more recognizable (for US audience at least) scale of "A through F" (A/B/C/D/F) which we're all mercilessly trained to recognize through years of school grades? "E" as your worst rating confused me at first glance - could be interpreted as "Excellent"

Wait the US doesn't have an 'E'? (Is 'F' short for Fail? I thought it was just the continuation of the sequence). Regardless, at least A is best, B is worse than that, etc. which makes sense.

Well I think "it Depends." At my school we had E's both E's and F's where failing, but the difference was that with E's you could make up the class in summer school, with F's you had to repeat the class the next year, multiple F's would mean you had to repeat the grade.

Re: ToS;DR — TL;DR for Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

#74
post #68

Seems a bit biased in places. One of the example sites has a big scary red X next to "Deleted images are not really deleted", despite that being an important feature for any site that lets users delete their own content. It's one of those tradeoffs you make where you trade a tiny fraction of risk (e.g., that somebody might break into your system and steal the exact cat photo that one high profile blogger was embarras…

despite that being an important feature for any site that lets users delete their own content. Well...no. How is it important for a site that lets users delete their own content not delete it? Your statement is self-contradictory.

That's a common outlook to have if you've never run a site where users upload content.

In practice, if you give your users a way to damage or delete their own account, they'll do it without giving it any thought. Then they'll think about it. And they'll want to undo it.

When they don't find an "undelete" button, they'll write you an email. And if you don't have an easy switch you can flip to magically fix the problem they caused for themself, they'll get mad at you.

So you quickly learn to just set an IsActive bit to false instead of actually deleting things. And it's not in any way a big deal for a "twitpic" style site where people are uploading things to the internet with the intention of sharing them.

My privacy policy that explains this makes a point of telling you that "If you don't want the things you upload to be on the Internet, please don't upload them to the Internet". I still field plenty of "undelete my stuff" mails, and it's nice to know that it's a 30 second fix to fix it. (And I've never once gotten a mail from an angry user because I didn't actually delete the bits from the hard drive when he hit the delete button)

Re: ToS;DR — TL;DR for Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

#75
post #51
post #18

Great concept and smart execution. A suggestion - rather than rating "A" through "E" why not change to the more recognizable (for US audience at least) scale of "A through F" (A/B/C/D/F) which we're all mercilessly trained to recognize through years of school grades? "E" as your worst rating confused me at first glance - could be interpreted as "Excellent"

Wait the US doesn't have an 'E'? (Is 'F' short for Fail? I thought it was just the continuation of the sequence). Regardless, at least A is best, B is worse than that, etc. which makes sense.

Where is the 'E'?:

http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2012/07/how-i-would-unschool-my...

Re: ToS;DR — TL;DR for Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

#76
post #63
post #49

For those who have decent experience in machine learning (and NLP) and its theoretical foundations...isn't there enough examples of TOS and conventions of the "art" that a classifier could be built to determine restrictiveness and such? Not completely accurate, but even something that's 60% right would be a huge help to services like the OP's

check out commonterms.net ;)

Clickable: http://commonterms.net

Re: ToS;DR — TL;DR for Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

#77
I'd be very careful counting the requirements for cookies as a bad thing (as seen in the github section):

First-Party session cookies are a totally valid use of cookies and actually help improving the security in that a session-id in a cookie will never be copy & pasted by accident (it happens to URL-based session-id's at times) and cookies can be marked as both httponly and secure, making it more difficult to impossible (depending on browser) to XSS the session-id away.

As such I would actually go as far as to prefer a site that requires (first-party session) cookies to one that doesn't.

Re: ToS;DR — TL;DR for Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

#78
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

despite that being an important feature for any site that lets users delete their own content. Well...no. How is it important for a site that lets users delete their own content not delete it? Your statement is self-contradictory.

That's a common outlook to have if you've never run a site where users upload content. In practice, if you give your users a way to damage or delete their own account, they'll do it without giving it any thought. Then they'll think about it. And they'll want to undo it. When they don't find an "undelete" button, they'll write you an email. And if you don't have an easy switch you can flip to magically fix the problem…

Oh please, do condescend to me about what sites I have run and which I have not, much less ones I have or have not written myself.

Look, I (and likely many others here) know what you're talking about, and it's not necessary. You can deactivate things, sure, but you can also say "This cannot be undone," and people will know what that means. Software has commonly operated this way for almost the entire GUI era (at least). These things aren't cut and dried nor required, and they are entirely the product of business rules and policies, which in your case sounds like a little bit of "blame the victim" ("well then you shouldn't have uploaded it"). Users know what a warning means in this context, though.

Re: ToS;DR — TL;DR for Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

#79
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait the US doesn't have an 'E'? (Is 'F' short for Fail? I thought it was just the continuation of the sequence). Regardless, at least A is best, B is worse than that, etc. which makes sense.

> Wait the US doesn't have an 'E'? (Is 'F' short for Fail? I thought it was just the continuation of the sequence) Well, apparently it's more complicated than that. I always assumed that the lack of E was so that there would be no confusion with the ESNU system (which a number of students used to have in elementary school, but then they switch over to the A-F system in middle school). Also, many countries outside the…

At the University of Utah, we have the 'E' grade also.

Re: ToS;DR — TL;DR for Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

#80
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could let you delete deleted items permanently, like Dropbox does. Storing data you uploaded with no way to delete it does have privacy implications, since it may be looked at by people working there and could be a lot more sensitive than a cat photo. I'd say a term that is more unfairly given a thumbs down is giving them a license to user content, since it's impractical to operate a user-generated content site…

I agree. But sometimes the copyright license conceded by the user goes way beyond what's needed for the service. Why do you give rights to sublicense and to transfer to Facebook or Twitter? Details: http://tos-dr.info/topics.html#copyright-scope

So the developers who built apps that read your FB/Twitter stream are also licensed to show the content.
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