I'd recommend putting some information about you in your About page. It says that the site is for answering questions from your fans, but doesn't say who you are, what you do, or why you have fans. I can Google for "Nick Cave" but I can't tell which one you are.
Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)
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Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)
#12> Songs arise out of suffering, by which I mean they are predicated upon the complex, internal human struggle of creation and, well, as far as I know, algorithms don’t feel. Data doesn’t suffer. Maybe I misunderstand this part, but it sounds like the author feels like it's required to suffer in order to produce something creative in the first place, and other artists that haven't suffered "enough" but produce things…
> Of course, everyone creates things from their own perspective and context, but it kind of feels like a trap that somehow suffering is essential to the artistic process, which I personally don't feel would be a healthy perspective for myself as a musician at least.
Suffering may be too strong a word. You have to feel something to make good art. There needs to be at least a kernel of something raw and real.
That’s the difference between art art and hotel lobby art. Art art expresses something the artist wanted to say. Hotel lobby art just fills space. Both can be good, but the goals are different. You can even make art art on commission for a hotel lobby! And most passersby will intuitively see that there’s a difference, it feels not bland somehow.
Or for example last night I did something creative: drawings. It wasn’t art art, I wasn’t expressing anything, I just wanted hand-drawn pictures of a few plants and an hour of relaxing.
I later asked ChatGPT to redraw one of my drawings. The result was far superior in every technical aspect. But somehow bland. You could tell it wasn’t _my_ venus fly trap, it was a generic representation of a cartoon idea of a venus fly trap. More of a pictogram really. A lot of what these AIs create has that same feeling of generic nonspecificity.
Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)
#13> Songs arise out of suffering, by which I mean they are predicated upon the complex, internal human struggle of creation and, well, as far as I know, algorithms don’t feel. Data doesn’t suffer. Maybe I misunderstand this part, but it sounds like the author feels like it's required to suffer in order to produce something creative in the first place, and other artists that haven't suffered "enough" but produce things…
I'm sure I am wading into dangerous waters here, but I kind of also think that "good" art, or perhaps I should say a particular kind of art that resonates with ones emotions, does come from the pain and suffering of the artist.
It is because we also have known pain, jealousy, the death of a loved one, etc. that art sprung from that kind of suffering will "ring true".
As I type this, I am looking at a painting on the wall in my hotel room. It's pleasant enough (a palm tree or something made with rough brush strokes — an interesting palette I guess) but it is not Edvard Munch. (Although, we probably don't want Edvard Munch all over the place, ha ha.)
Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)
#14> Songs arise out of suffering, by which I mean they are predicated upon the complex, internal human struggle of creation and, well, as far as I know, algorithms don’t feel. Data doesn’t suffer. Maybe I misunderstand this part, but it sounds like the author feels like it's required to suffer in order to produce something creative in the first place, and other artists that haven't suffered "enough" but produce things…
There's the suffering one experiences from a lived life which one uses as the material for a work of art, and then there's the "suffering" that one experiences in the process of artistic creation. I think Nick Cave leaves it open as to which one he's referring to, maybe both. But I'm understanding that you are specifically referring to the former. Perhaps you are right, but I do agree with Cave that the creation of art is a constant struggle. A perfect portrayal of this artistic struggle is depicted in Victor Erice's film Quince Tree Sun.
Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)
#15> ChatGPT has no inner being, it has been nowhere, it has endured nothing… The whole thing from Nick is brilliant, but I had to pick a line as an example and the above is pretty perfect. Maybe a bit orthogonal, but I find more and more examples in life where I see a distinction between the real and the "virtual". Watching someone on YouTube go on a long bike tour and then later doing my first long tour myself and I a…
> An imitation of art will never be art. As art is somewhat/sometimes an imitation of life/the world itself, why cannot an imitation of art also be considered art? I don't know the right answer (if there is one), but was the question that appeared when I read that.
I think I kind of get what you mean. As I started learning to draw the human figure I began by copping the styles of Mort Drucker, etc. In time though I had cribbed and combined from so many that the result became I suppose my own style. These LLMs of course learn from every artist they are trained by.
But I didn't mean imitating the art "style" but imitating the art itself — to that thing that makes it "art" and not "graphic design" (whoops, whole new can of worms). I think, as Nick kind of said, you can't really imitate that. It has to come from your own failures and disappointments in growing up, in a life lived not mimicked.
Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)
#16[flagged]
What's "copium?" Is it one of those meme words (slang, we used to call it) used by people who haven't spent much time reading or writing? Or who can't detect how AI slop is nothing like actual writing? And why do you use the word "honestly" in your terse response? Would you otherwise have been lying? Or is it a crutch that you hope makes you more authentic? Honestly, I'd like to know. And why is there no punctuation…
It’s a word people who spend their days on the internet arguing use, and is safe to ignore.
Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)
#17> Songs arise out of suffering, by which I mean they are predicated upon the complex, internal human struggle of creation and, well, as far as I know, algorithms don’t feel. Data doesn’t suffer. Maybe I misunderstand this part, but it sounds like the author feels like it's required to suffer in order to produce something creative in the first place, and other artists that haven't suffered "enough" but produce things…
Put more simply, he's saying art is the product of, and the expression of, human emotion and experience.
Suffering just happens to be a common element of that, but it's not essential. Maybe because it most commonly produces good or great art. People generally don't make art about how their love life is perfectly fine, instead they express their experience of devastating heartbreak.
Nike Cave is just one strand of the artistic experience. Contrast say Kraftwerk, whose expression is about feelings of affinity with machines, technology and even interaction with transport infrastructure.
Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)
#18[flagged]
What's "copium?" Is it one of those meme words (slang, we used to call it) used by people who haven't spent much time reading or writing? Or who can't detect how AI slop is nothing like actual writing? And why do you use the word "honestly" in your terse response? Would you otherwise have been lying? Or is it a crutch that you hope makes you more authentic? Honestly, I'd like to know. And why is there no punctuation…
[flagged]
Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)
#19> Songs arise out of suffering, by which I mean they are predicated upon the complex, internal human struggle of creation and, well, as far as I know, algorithms don’t feel. Data doesn’t suffer. Maybe I misunderstand this part, but it sounds like the author feels like it's required to suffer in order to produce something creative in the first place, and other artists that haven't suffered "enough" but produce things…
He’s sharing his perspective, you don’t have to agree and he isn’t establishing some eternal truth. His statement aligns well with the art he produces. Feel free to continue being a musician as you have in the past in whatever healthy, suffering-free way you prefer.
Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)
#20> Songs arise out of suffering, by which I mean they are predicated upon the complex, internal human struggle of creation and, well, as far as I know, algorithms don’t feel. Data doesn’t suffer. Maybe I misunderstand this part, but it sounds like the author feels like it's required to suffer in order to produce something creative in the first place, and other artists that haven't suffered "enough" but produce things…
McCartney is a great example of 'naming a genius that ain't crazy', plus doesn't seem to have suffered that much in his life. His work doesn't communicate that at all.