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Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

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Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#3

Post by diggan »

> Songs arise out of suffering, by which I mean they are predicated upon the complex, internal human struggle of creation and, well, as far as I know, algorithms don’t feel. Data doesn’t suffer.

Maybe I misunderstand this part, but it sounds like the author feels like it's required to suffer in order to produce something creative in the first place, and other artists that haven't suffered "enough" but produce things anyways, aren't actually creating "genuine" music.

Of course, everyone creates things from their own perspective and context, but it kind of feels like a trap that somehow suffering is essential to the artistic process, which I personally don't feel would be a healthy perspective for myself as a musician at least.

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#4

Post by JKCalhoun »

> ChatGPT has no inner being, it has been nowhere, it has endured nothing…

The whole thing from Nick is brilliant, but I had to pick a line as an example and the above is pretty perfect.

Maybe a bit orthogonal, but I find more and more examples in life where I see a distinction between the real and the "virtual". Watching someone on YouTube go on a long bike tour and then later doing my first long tour myself and I am struck by how rich the thoughts are I am having on the ride, how connected I have suddenly become once again to the "outside" — wondering when the next place to get water will be, where I will pitch my tent and sleep that night.

Hiking with my family to see Delicate Arch on one of the hottest days on record. I have to scout ahead for shade for my daughter who is perhaps beginning to dangerously overheat. (And in fact two hikers did die that day in an area very near to where we were in Utah.) Not an experience, for better or worse, that you'll get playing World of Warcraft (just to pick on that game for no particular reason).

Art too, as Nick says, requires I think an element of experienced pain (or danger). An imitation of art will never be art.

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#5

Post by lionkor »

diggan wrote: post #3

> Songs arise out of suffering, by which I mean they are predicated upon the complex, internal human struggle of creation and, well, as far as I know, algorithms don’t feel. Data doesn’t suffer. Maybe I misunderstand this part, but it sounds like the author feels like it's required to suffer in order to produce something creative in the first place, and other artists that haven't suffered "enough" but produce things…

Maybe the fundamental understanding of suffering, and therefore empathy also, are important? Trying to be devil's advocate

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#6

Post by diggan »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #4

> ChatGPT has no inner being, it has been nowhere, it has endured nothing… The whole thing from Nick is brilliant, but I had to pick a line as an example and the above is pretty perfect. Maybe a bit orthogonal, but I find more and more examples in life where I see a distinction between the real and the "virtual". Watching someone on YouTube go on a long bike tour and then later doing my first long tour myself and I a…

> An imitation of art will never be art.

As art is somewhat/sometimes an imitation of life/the world itself, why cannot an imitation of art also be considered art? I don't know the right answer (if there is one), but was the question that appeared when I read that.

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#8

Post by getlawgdon »

jdmoreira wrote: post #2

[flagged]

What's "copium?" Is it one of those meme words (slang, we used to call it) used by people who haven't spent much time reading or writing? Or who can't detect how AI slop is nothing like actual writing? And why do you use the word "honestly" in your terse response? Would you otherwise have been lying? Or is it a crutch that you hope makes you more authentic? Honestly, I'd like to know. And why is there no punctuation or capitalization in your reply? So many questions raised in your throwaway, authentic, structureless writing.

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#10

Post by jedimastert »

diggan wrote: post #3

> Songs arise out of suffering, by which I mean they are predicated upon the complex, internal human struggle of creation and, well, as far as I know, algorithms don’t feel. Data doesn’t suffer. Maybe I misunderstand this part, but it sounds like the author feels like it's required to suffer in order to produce something creative in the first place, and other artists that haven't suffered "enough" but produce things…

Art requires life experience, and a lot of people are under the unfortunate impression that the only "real" life an artist can have is that of suffering, that if they are not suffering then they aren't having "real" experiences.

As far as I can tell, they seem to see the fact that our society does not value artists and specifically extorts them, and takes this as reality instead of a collective choice

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