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How Kerala got rich

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Re: How Kerala got rich

#211

Post by mc32 »

anon291 wrote: post #207
mc32 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In popular US culture the pursuit of wealth, is framed as crass. Movies that some see as promoting wealth accumulation are often actually critiques against wealth. Also, since the mid 60s pop culture has embraced the slacker as being hip and cool. They guy and gal trying to get ahead are portrayed as greedy or at best blindly joining a rat-race forgoing more noble pursuits. Not so for many other cultures.

That's because America is fundamentally a Christian country. I know no one wants to hear this. But this zeitgeist is unmistakenly Christian. Interestingly enough the same forces are at work in kerala, which is one of the most Christian states in India (and the ruling communists are associated with them)

Can you expound on this idea? What does anti-wealth have to do with Christianity and how does Communism enter the frame in India?

Prior to the mid 60s seeking betterment and wealth was one of the main reasons people migrated to the US replacing religious persecution back home as the main reason to come.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#212

Post by sashank_1509 »

I keep hearing this Kerala has great literacy rate cope, but I’ve come to realize literacy rate doesn’t matter. Literacy rate is a very white collar, tech bubble bias. People of our social class, cannot imagine being unable to read or write until you realize that American literacy rate in 1900 was 46% (What you really need is industry. Kerala on that note has a very low score. Many states have much bigger industry and thus work for the people in those states. Kerala is still a rural farming/ tourism state and the only reason it has any money is because they send people to do blue collar back-breaking work in UAE and get back remittances.

To be fair, this is an India wide problem. India creates far more engineers than it needs, hence they all leave to find jobs elsewhere. There is almost no high quality engineering jobs in India, if they exist they are a part of US based tech companies. All Indian companies are stuck 10+ years in the past. Among that Kerala is a particularly bad offender where it doesn’t have even the existing textile/ steel/ automotive industry that other states do.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#213

Post by sashank_1509 »

spyckie2 wrote: post #140
benced wrote: post #61

Kerala has extremely aggressive out-migration (including my entire family): it is a bad place to be ambitious, particularly with the France-like union culture. If India is to become China-rich or Mexico-rich, my prediction is Kerala will regress to the mean of India states. Its model seems geared towards being an extremely good place to be poor (which is a huge achievement to be clear: they dealt with COVID better th…

I noticed this in Taiwan between 2018-2020 when I was staying there. A highly educated population but with little to no opportunities. Most of very ambitious talent found jobs in China or Singapore. A strong business environment, or strong investment opportunities, or a large consumer base is very much needed to have attractive jobs. A strongly educated workforce does little to enable such an environment. Intuitively…

Interesting view of Taiwan. What is the Taiwanese view of China. Do a lot not mind migrating to China or do they hate China, and want to be independent?

Re: How Kerala got rich

#214

Post by sashank_1509 »

decimalenough wrote: post #132
rdedev wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When COVID was spreading around china the state govt was putting out public announcements about this disease and what symptoms to watch out for. I remember that even in the month of Feb 2020 there were public announcements in train stations. There is a lot of emphasis on education and health in the state. Granted it may not be rich as other states but it leads other states in a lot of other markers

Kerala is rich by Indian standards, but its GDP per capital is still only around $3500/year, making it nowhere near rich by world standards.

Even by Indian standards, it’s #11 by GDP per capita among 27 Indian states. I guess top third is not bad, but not exceptional either.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#215

Post by vram22 »

anon291 wrote: post #179
Cherian wrote: post #92

I was born in the second southernmost district of Kerala, Quilon (now Kollam). I am now a U.S. citizen in the Bay Area. Growing up in Quilon, I attended an Anglo-Indian boy's school called Infant Jesus - in a small strip of land called Thangassery, people predominantly spoke English. I was taught British dialects emphasizing pronunciations that mimicked the world stage. I didn't really understand it until much later…

> Kerala has a mix of Western population that decided to stay back after the Indian Independence that brought with them Christianity, education, hospitals, and the Catholic culture. Kerala is also one of the few places in India where you can eat beef without inhibitions. Christianity in Kerala is much older than European Christianity. Literally the land of the Apostles

>Christianity in Kerala is much older than European Christianity.

Yes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Thomas_Christians

See the History section.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#216

Post by goku12 »

poisonwomb wrote: post #121

These communists sound like they have the right idea; maybe we should try it!

I'm from Kerala and I've been to North America. The 'communism' here isn't what the Americans think it is. You can consider it as socialist liberalism at best. Communism in its revolutionary form did exist at a time when social inequality and injustice was very rampant. Now it's a political movement under India's democracy.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#217

Post by evan_ »

mc32 wrote: post #172
not_kurt_godel wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The connection between education and wealth is very strong. Very sad that the US has decided to pursue a trajectory towards poverty in this area.

In popular US culture the pursuit of wealth, is framed as crass. Movies that some see as promoting wealth accumulation are often actually critiques against wealth. Also, since the mid 60s pop culture has embraced the slacker as being hip and cool. They guy and gal trying to get ahead are portrayed as greedy or at best blindly joining a rat-race forgoing more noble pursuits. Not so for many other cultures.

I don't think this is true anymore. "Selling out" is now seen as a goal. Kids post fake ads on their instagrams to convince each other that they have brand sponsorship deals. Every celebrity, from reality-show nobody to AAA-lister shills for their own signature alcohol or cell phone carrier. The culture celebrates grindset mindset crypto-scam rugpulls and denigrates anyone who toils at a 9-5 as a wage-slave who'll never make it.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#219

Post by YouAreRONGS »

The main reason is probably because it is a small state with a majority Christian/Muslim population who work in the Middle East. It allows the state to get to a higher lower income level quickly. But there's very little in terms of actual enterprise in the same way you get in Tamil Nadu or other parts of India.

As to why the article is on the front page on HN? Probably because the state has a large diaspora in the Middle East.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#220

Post by YouAreRONGS »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #66
jeswin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I lived there for the first two decades, and outside Kerala for the next two and a bit. The only thing Kerala exports is the workforce, since it's impossible to start anything in Kerala thanks to politics and high costs. I know because I've tried. Kerala had historical ties with the Middle East thanks in part to a substantial Muslim population, and the migrant labour force was able to funnel some of Middle Easte…

It's not clear what you tried to start and absent any other information your personal failure at it isn't a compelling alternative picture of the region's development to me. I'm sure there are valid other views than the one presented in the article, I'm not saying there aren't. But as someone who doesn't know much about the region, you aren't really giving me more information about it, or giving me any reasons to tak…

I think the main point of the opposition argument is that it's Kerala's religious demographics that led the state to be dependent on Middle Eastern remmitence. If you did a demographic survey of South Asians in the Middle East, the vast majority of them would be Muslim. It's a good way to reach a lower middle income level, but it's not achieving the type of growth needed to build industry and service.
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