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The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

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281–290 of 290 posts

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#281
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Marx the literature is basically religious in nature so reading his successors without reading Marx would be like reading religious commentaries on the bible without reading the original bible stories. There could be reasons to do that (e.g. modern text is easier to read), but you'd be missing a lot. There are other writers who were writing before or at the same time as Marx on similar topics who were clearer in…

Anti-liberalism and Marxism may be popular and therefore people join in dismissing Marx, but afaik Marx was and to some extent is (the ideas are from a long time ago) taken seriously as a serious theorist.

> Anti-liberalism and Marxism may be popular

I'm not sure whether to parse this as (anti-liberalism) and (Marxism) or as (anti-liberalism) and (anti-Marxism). But in case you meant the latter, Marxism is explicitly anti-liberal in the sense that he rejected the philosophical position that was called liberalism. And this vehement rejection has persisted through his followers. It's also anti-liberal in most broader senses.

> afaik Marx was and to some extent is (the ideas are from a long time ago) taken seriously as a serious theorist.

He's not taken seriously in philosophy or economics. There are some serious scholars who give him credit for contributions to early social science, although I think those scholars generally give him credit for ideas that were published and debated well before him and which he didn't really improve or advance.

Primarily he's taken seriously as an influential person in history, like Jesus, Buddha, Stalin, or Hitler. He was essentially a peripheral polemicist at the time of his death. The Soviets basically deified him because they needed something like a state religion, and they're responsible for whatever reputation he has today. But remember the Soviets were very big on propaganda, not so big on accuracy, and a lot of what people think they know about Marx is seen through the filter of authoritarian propaganda. Similarly a lot of what we know about Jesus passed through the filter of the Roman Empire and their desire to use him as the basis of an imperial religion. We're in a better shape with Marx, though, because we have many his writings (minus a significant amount of his correspondence which he and others destroyed).

There are, of course, economists and philosophers who consider themselves Marxists and who take him seriously. Often they're appointed to departments outside the main econ or philosophy department. For example, it wouldn't be unusual for a Marxist philosophy to be appointed to a German department or a history department.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#282
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use LLMs quite a bit (as you can see, for example, on my stream). I also consume a lot of podcasts, YouTube videos, Wikipedia articles, and books. My personal take is LLMs and podcasts are not great for research. Wikipedia is generally outstanding for science and related topics, although it's clearly astroturfed on topics about companies and some political topics. Podcasts typically cover things very shallowly but…

I thought I got a pretty good response- not o1: https://chatgpt.com/share/67db7ea5-f770-800e-bd6f-67945f5842... Maybe you meant that it immediately went to USA specific, but you can always change your question to clarify. Basically, if I'm unfamiliar with the topic this gives me a solid basis to ask begin to ask follow-up questions that use the terminology of the field, or start to find out what is regarded as import…

Yeah I mean that it went USA specific and also time specific. If you know enough to ask clarification that's great. But the problem with research is I don't know what I don't know, so when it puts me in a very small part of the problem space it's hard for me to see how little knowledge I've gained.

In this example, I wouldn't personally consider any of these theories for why suburbs exist. They're all important reasons for the expansion of US suburbs during one time period. But that doesn't answer the question of why, for example, there aren't forces that pin everyone either to an urban or rural existence without suburbs. The answer to that question would involve rather different concepts than the answer it gave IMO.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#283

I started reading history as a hobby a few years after college when I heard some things from people that just didn’t make sense or didn’t seem true. So I picked up a booked that was well cited, read it while checking the citations after each chapter. Between the Library of Congress and Google, checking original sources has never been easier. It was a really mind blowing exercise. Much more interesting than fiction. W…

Could you please recommend some history books?

IMO it's too broad. You need to have something you want to learn more about and then try to find a couple of different books on the subject to get a clearer picture.

My interest grew when I had the realization that you can easily spot "gaps" in history, if you just start asking "Why?"

Example: This country invaded that country. Why?

History is full of cause and effect. The fastest way to figure out where you're not getting the whole story is if there's not a "Why?" or the reason simply doesn't make sense.

I enjoy US history, but I've learned to gravitate towards topics that simply don't get discussed much in the "highlights", with the highlights being the American Revolution and WWII. Just for example, the War of 1812, French and Indian War aren't talked about much but are pretty interesting. Learning about the Cold War by reading Skunkworks was really cool. There's a book called The Code Book that is a great read and covers a lot of "history of encryption" during wartime that I really enjoyed.

On the Biblical side of things, I went down a rabbit hole trying to track the migration of the Jewish Tribe of Dan from Cyprus and their influence on Greek/Roman mythology. Just really interesting stuff to me so I even blogged about it.

https://www.readnotmisled.org/p/was-herculesjewish-biblical-...

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you just can't read while doing the dishes or morning cardio or running unit tests this is literally what audiobooks are for. And I concentrate significantly better on audio if I'm multitasking with a mindless activity

I would very much dispute your claim that you are actually concentrating "significantly better" while multitasking, but we don't even need to go there. By the nature of an audiobook, you are forced to always go forward in your "reading", so your opportunities to trace back to a hard concept or even pause and think about a sentence for a while are close to 0 (especially if you aren't actively managing the player and i…

> you are forced to always go forward in your "reading", so your opportunities to trace back to a hard concept or even pause and think about a sentence for a while are close to 0

my earbuds have a double-tap to play/pause. What makes you think I don't use it??

> but if you were trying to improve your comprehension of language by reading harder books, or trying to study actual concepts, audiobooks would be useless

reading is reading. For nonfiction where my goal is to learn I do audio and pause to take notes. For entertainment I read speculative fiction usually as audio-only, sometimes also with text (Malazan and Terra Ignota being notable for when I wanted text). But that doesn't mean that what I listen to with audio only is somehow lower quality.

And it's kind of funny to me that you say "improve my comprehension of language" because I listen to audiobooks somewhere between 3.5x and 4.3x speed generally (and still working on improving my comprehension at higher speeds). You're probably going to say that this necessarily means I don't understand what I read but...no, actually, listening to audio has drastically improved my language processing ability. And even if mostly I'm listening to fiction for entertainment, this improvement in comprehension carries over to reading nonfiction.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#286
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-liberalism and Marxism may be popular and therefore people join in dismissing Marx, but afaik Marx was and to some extent is (the ideas are from a long time ago) taken seriously as a serious theorist.

> Anti-liberalism and Marxism may be popular I'm not sure whether to parse this as (anti-liberalism) and (Marxism) or as (anti-liberalism) and (anti-Marxism). But in case you meant the latter, Marxism is explicitly anti-liberal in the sense that he rejected the philosophical position that was called liberalism. And this vehement rejection has persisted through his followers. It's also anti-liberal in most broader sen…

You know well that contemporary conservatives call contemporary liberals, 'Marxists' (without knowing what they are talking about).

> There are, of course, economists and philosophers who consider themselves Marxists and who take him seriously.

We agree.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#287
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many, many times in historical research the "primary source" (I'm using your definition here because in historical circles the primary source is not always the original artifact or document) is lost to time. It's then up to historians, anthropologists, and other researchers to figure out whether the artifact in question actually existed and whether there's agreement among other sources on what it said. In historical…

Thanks and very interesting. Are you an historian? > in historical circles the primary source is not always the original artifact or document What does it mean in historical circles? I know people will often use a digital scan, a reliable transcription, etc., and not necessarily the original - but then isn't that based on the assumption that it's a reliable representation of the original? I didn't mean to suggest pri…

I totally forgot to hit "Reply" to this. Apologies!

> Are you an historian?

I published some work in undergrad but stopped afterward (much to the chagrin of my professors.) I still keep up with historian circles, folks who either are academic historians or participate in the general community.

> I know people will often use a digital scan, a reliable transcription, etc., and not necessarily the original - but then isn't that based on the assumption that it's a reliable representation of the original?

Veracity of a source is a very, very complicated topic in historical research. Sometimes documents are authoritative. For example, the American Declaration of Independence is a well-preserved document that has been commented on millions of times at this point and has many, many copies. We can be very sure that the Declaration of Independence exists and says what it says. This isn't the case for a lot of historical documents.

Until use of the printing press became widespread in a culture, distributing copies of documents was laborious. Usually a scribe would have to read the original and copy it. Writing media from this time (paper, parchment, tablets, etc) were also usually expensive. Each document was usually considered an individual work of art and so even if a scribe was copying a document, we had no idea whether the scribe editorialized the work, forgot to copy some of the work, or otherwise modified its original intent. That means that while we may find a document with a title in our modern era, we don't know if that document was the authoritative original or even if the contemporary readers actually consumed the version of the document we have in our possession or a different edition.

Then there's the question of veracity of the claims of the document itself. A lot of surveys and statistics from historical writings are false. There are usually numerous cultural and political reasons for this (maybe the culture didn't count women as people, maybe the culture only counted landholders, maybe the author didn't see a certain tribe in the area as people to be counted, etc.) and so even when we're reasonably confident of when a document was authored and by whom it's hard to be certain of the veracity of its claims.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#288
post #84

I read a fair amount and I actually do research as leisure all the time, but I can’t stand these elitist and unoriginal think pieces about how much better and cooler this person’s habits are than yours. >> for the leisurely researcher, self-study must include the discipline’s foundational texts I feel like this person has some kind of dark academia aesthetic fetish that they need to hold onto to feel superior to ever…

>> I feel like this person has some kind of dark academia aesthetic fetish that they need to hold onto to feel superior to everyone else. The older I get, the more I'm convinced that people do this less to actually feel superior to others and more as a desperate act of establishing an identity, ANY identity, to simply feel seen and validated in spite of just being yet another person on the planet. This uniquely-human…

I am getting old and I agree.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#289
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This commenter certainly doesn’t appear to be a native English speaker, what makes you assume they are American?

Not assuming they're American, I'm blaming the discourse in American society which spills over to other societies in the age of information, if you know English it's impossible to not be affected by USA's bullshit on the internet.

So you’re not “watching from the outside”.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#290
post #244
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it should be taught in reverse chronology. Basically here's what's happening now, and that's due to what happened last year, which is due to what happened last decade, etc Boy, oh boy, you will hate Karl Popper if you ever decide to read him lol

I've read some of his work (only a little bit), but I can't figure out what you're referring to. Is it just that we can't properly know what causes what? For the purposes of childhood education that does not matter too much :)

Fair enough
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