Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

merriam-webster.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 492 posts

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#361

Post by hansvm »

tines wrote: post #351
rmunn wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also put spaces around em dashes. It looks wrong—subtly wrong—to me to have the words glued together around the dash. It looks right — completely right — to me to have the dash standing on its own, as if it was a word in its own right.

The reason not to do this is observable in your post on my phone. The spaces cause the word wrapping algorithm to leave a dangling dash at the end of the line which looks ugly. Omitting spaces prevents the word break.

Funny, I'd rather have the break at the start or end of the emdash-implied break than just before or after it, not having to mentally handle some single dangling word divorced from its compatriots.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#362

Post by JadeNB »

Propelloni wrote: post #289
rahimnathwani wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in the UK, and have always used space, minus, space. The first keyboard I used was my dad's typewriter, and I don't recall it having any 'dash' other that the minus sign.

I was under the impression that you do "-" for hyphen, "--" for En dash, and "---" for Em dash. IIRC, LaTeX (or maybe the editor, it has been some time) even helpfully changes that for you to the correct dash.

> I was under the impression that you do "-" for hyphen, "--" for En dash, and "---" for Em dash. IIRC, LaTeX (or maybe the editor, it has been some time) even helpfully changes that for you to the correct dash.

The conversion of '--' to an en dash and '---' to an em dash is done by the TeX compiler, and appears in the rendered file, but I think that most TeX editors don't change the TeX code itself. (This is distinct from XeTeX-based compilers, which can handle non-ASCII Unicode characters like the em dash '—' directly in the source.)

(I think that the article's point is that, in some fonts, -- (two hyphens) is literally the (approximate) size of an em dash, not that it is always understood as meaning an em dash. At least in my font, --- (three hyphens) is far too long to literally look like an em dash:

---

--

—

–

(in order, three hyphens, two hyphens, em dash, en dash).)

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#363

Post by layer8 »

divbzero wrote: post #160
mmooss wrote: post #142

Here's an easy, if not always precise way to remember: * Hyphens connect things, such as compound words: double-decker , cut-and-dried , 212-555-5555 . * EN dashes make a range between things: Boston–San Francisco flight, 10–20 years: both connect not only the endpoints, but define that all the space between is included. (Compare the last usage with the phone number example under Hyphens.) * EM dashes break things, s…

I prefer the dedicated minus (U+2212) over the hyphen-minus (U+002d) for mathematical use because they look different in most font faces. Are there cases where the dedicated hyphen (U+2010) is preferred over the hyphen-minus?

It has two potential benefits:

— In the context of automatic text processing, it unambiguously indicates the function of a hyphen, as opposed to a minus

— Fonts can choose to make the hyphen-minus a bit wider than a regular hyphen, to accommodate the usage as a minus sign. In that case, U+2010 would be typographically more appropriate for a hyphen, similar to how U+2212 usually is typographically more appropriate for a minus sign.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#364

Post by kps »

culi wrote: post #72
alabastervlog wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The default US English Mac keyboard is so extremely good, and has been the way it is for so long, that I remain baffled that other platforms haven't simply copied it. I came to it relatively late in life and it's one of the reasons I wish I'd started using Macs sooner.

It's pretty decent but the fact that I can't type an arbitrary unicode character has been a huge annoyance of mine since I switched from Windows/WSL to Mac. They have shortcuts for Í, Î, and Ï but not for many commonly used characters like arrows

It's very easy¹ on MacOS to make yourself a custom layout with the characters you commonly use. Personally, I put arrows on ⌥⇧HJKL, vi-style.² (Doing so for Linux is a little more work, as xkb is more complicated and less capable.)

¹ https://software.sil.org/ukelele/

² https://codeberg.org/datatravelandexperiments/kps-keyboard-l...

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#365

Post by [deleted] »

econ wrote: post #199
mmooss wrote: post #142

Here's an easy, if not always precise way to remember: * Hyphens connect things, such as compound words: double-decker , cut-and-dried , 212-555-5555 . * EN dashes make a range between things: Boston–San Francisco flight, 10–20 years: both connect not only the endpoints, but define that all the space between is included. (Compare the last usage with the phone number example under Hyphens.) * EM dashes break things, s…

I've always wanted an array or object with range keys like: arr[0–2] = 123; if(arr[1.5555]>122){}

[deleted]

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#366

Post by ubermonkey »

I use the hyphen key, and hit it once for a hyphen or for a minus sign, and I use it twice for an em dash.

At some point, many things I type into started replacing "--" with an em dash, but my precambrian computer typing muscle memory is fine with "hyphenhyphen" meaning "em dash".

I will admit right here in front of god & everybody that I'm pretty sure I've never typed an en dash at all.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#367

Post by krupan »

grey413 wrote: post #291
Starlevel004 wrote: post #91

I refuse to care about this. A single dash is all I will ever use. I see no possible reason to use the other two.

En dashes, I'll grant you, are pointless. Those can go away. However, em dashes are a different case. The main reason why it's desirable to use em dashes (beside convention) is for clarity of purpose. The hyphen is already a very overloaded character; they're extensively used to denote ranges and link compound words. Importantly, both of those usages do not correspond to pauses in spoken language. If you're voicing a…

Just use two dashes. Or like you said, use parentheses, commas, or semi-colons

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#368

Post by rmunn »

tines wrote: post #351
rmunn wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also put spaces around em dashes. It looks wrong—subtly wrong—to me to have the words glued together around the dash. It looks right — completely right — to me to have the dash standing on its own, as if it was a word in its own right.

The reason not to do this is observable in your post on my phone. The spaces cause the word wrapping algorithm to leave a dangling dash at the end of the line which looks ugly. Omitting spaces prevents the word break.

I mentioned that as an advantage in one of my other comments. An advantage both ways, because it depends on preference. I have the same preference as hansvm: I would rather see the dangling dash at the end of the line, so I prefer putting spaces around the dashes. Having the entire word-dash-word structure move to the next line feels ugly to me. As with most things, de gustibus non est disputandum. (And also, quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur).

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#369

Post by ubermonkey »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #3

AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two hyphens, like: -- Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon pre-2022.

Word and Outlook have replaced "hyphenhyphen" with an Em dash for decades.

Or, I mean, it does SOMETHING. I've never checked, and just always assumed I was getting the em dash.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#370

Post by da_chicken »

tines wrote: post #351
rmunn wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also put spaces around em dashes. It looks wrong—subtly wrong—to me to have the words glued together around the dash. It looks right — completely right — to me to have the dash standing on its own, as if it was a word in its own right.

The reason not to do this is observable in your post on my phone. The spaces cause the word wrapping algorithm to leave a dangling dash at the end of the line which looks ugly. Omitting spaces prevents the word break.

Ironically, on my phone the only line that ends with an em dash has no spaces in it.

If you want to not have a line break, you shouldn't rely on arbitrary behavior. You should use non-breaking characters like non-breaking spaces and word joiners.

Post reply on HN