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Learn to code, ignore AI, then use AI to code even better

kyrylo.org

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Re: Learn to code, ignore AI, then use AI to code even better

#41

Post by fludlow »

Frieren wrote: post #22
marjann wrote: post #9

The rise of tools like Cursor reminds me of the Industrial Revolution in France. When machines first appeared in factories, unskilled workers who didn’t understand how they operated often got injured - sometimes quite literally losing fingers. But for skilled craftsmen, these machines became force multipliers, dramatically increasing productivity and improving overall living standards. The same applies to software de…

> When machines first appeared in factories, unskilled workers who didn’t understand how they operated often got injured - sometimes quite literally losing fingers. Factories were extremely dangerous because the machines had no safety measures. And they continued to be dangerous, for everybody skilled or not, until the introduction of workers rights, regulations and enforced safety measures and protocols. > But for s…

I like your comparison. A related thought: what should be really valuable right now for Cursor, Windsurf etc is figuring out who the skilled users are and further training their models based on their usage. In fact, actively courting skilled devs would give them very high quality data to finesse the tools further.

If I could honestly say I was any good at coding I'd be using this as an argument for unlimited free access to these platforms!

Re: Learn to code, ignore AI, then use AI to code even better

#42

Post by NitpickLawyer »

kshacker wrote: post #21
nkrisc wrote: post #6

If you spend time on places that attract newbie programmers (some subreddits focused on game dev or game engines, for example) you’ll see the outcome of “I no longer think you should learn to code.” And it’s not pretty. Many, many posts of people looking for help fixing AI-generated code because the AI got it wrong and they have no idea what the code even does. Much of the time the problem is simply an invented metho…

I have played around wit AI code from time to time. I do not code routinely but I have pet personal projects that allow me to do some code and this is where I experimented. Rule number 1 and the only rule: You need to be a subject matter expert. Be it program logic or be it programming language. AI is only a helper, it will go wrong, frequently, and if you do not understand the reason for the code and the programming…

> Rule number 1 and the only rule: You need to be a subject matter expert.

Strong disagree. I've been coding for 25+years but never on the front-end side. I couldn't write JS w/ pen & paper with a gun against my head. But I know what to ask and how to make sure a react component does what I want it to do, with these tools.

Re: Learn to code, ignore AI, then use AI to code even better

#43

Post by koopuluri »

> Because if you can vibe code… so can everyone else. > And if everyone can do it, what makes you think Devin won’t replace you?

Devin won't replace you if you can create valuable products through "vibe coding" or whatever else you call it.

when coding itself becomes a commodity, value creation becomes more concentrated up the stack: what you choose to build, how well you market / sell it, how you connect with your customers, product design. Devin won't outcompete humans at these skills anytime soon.

instead of sticking to a skill that's quickly becoming a commodity (as the author recommends), moving up the stack is the way to go (outside of very niche, specialized engineering domains - e.g: training base models).

Re: Learn to code, ignore AI, then use AI to code even better

#44

Post by ohgr »

fsndz wrote: post #40
nkrisc wrote: post #6

If you spend time on places that attract newbie programmers (some subreddits focused on game dev or game engines, for example) you’ll see the outcome of “I no longer think you should learn to code.” And it’s not pretty. Many, many posts of people looking for help fixing AI-generated code because the AI got it wrong and they have no idea what the code even does. Much of the time the problem is simply an invented metho…

vibe coding is overrated. The good sequence is: learn to code, then vibe code when possible. Vibe coding is a trap for junior software engineers. https://www.lycee.ai/blog/why-vibe-coding-is-overrated

Appears to be a trap for idiot engineers as well. Some who are quite senior.

Re: Learn to code, ignore AI, then use AI to code even better

#46

Post by ZaoLahma »

AI does not and will not solve the most difficult part of programming: Expressing how you wish to solve a problem in simple terms.

It doesn't matter if you communicate with a compiler or an LLM - you still need to express your thoughts and ideas with no ambiguity for it to produce the wanted behavior. What makes "vibe coding" with an LLM both easier and more challenging at the same time is that is will guess what you mean and give you results that "kind of " work even when you express yourself unclearly. For someone who can code, the "kind of work" results can be used as a starting point to evolve into something useful. For someone who can't code, it's an inevitable dead end.

I find that those who struggle with programming have the exact same type of struggles when trying to do it with LLMs - no structured plan on how to approach a problem and difficulties to understand the context in which they are working.

Re: Learn to code, ignore AI, then use AI to code even better

#47

Post by valenterry »

nkrisc wrote: post #6

If you spend time on places that attract newbie programmers (some subreddits focused on game dev or game engines, for example) you’ll see the outcome of “I no longer think you should learn to code.” And it’s not pretty. Many, many posts of people looking for help fixing AI-generated code because the AI got it wrong and they have no idea what the code even does. Much of the time the problem is simply an invented metho…

> a problem that is trivially solved by the error message and documentation

Then why does the AI not solve it anyways?

I think understanding "the code" will eventually be as important as understanding machine code or assembly nowadays - still very important for a small number of devs, important in very rare cases for some other devs and completely irrelevant to the majority of devs.

Re: Learn to code, ignore AI, then use AI to code even better

#48

Post by j-bos »

nkrisc wrote: post #6

If you spend time on places that attract newbie programmers (some subreddits focused on game dev or game engines, for example) you’ll see the outcome of “I no longer think you should learn to code.” And it’s not pretty. Many, many posts of people looking for help fixing AI-generated code because the AI got it wrong and they have no idea what the code even does. Much of the time the problem is simply an invented metho…

If anything, debugging gobbledygook an AI wrote is good practice for debugging gobbledygook John from 4 years ago wrote.

Re: Learn to code, ignore AI, then use AI to code even better

#49

Post by CharlieDigital »

Probably the opposite is true: the more you know how to code, the less productive you'll be with AI. This has been my observation watching a non-technical friend build a SaaS as a one-man team in 4 months and is generating $#,000 in revenue within 2 months.

The way he uses AI is just completely different from how the technical folks I know use AI because he doesn't think about the code at all. The way he instructs the AI is different from how engineers prompt the AI.

I actually think that his success with AI is in particular because he doesn't know how to code but was previously managing projects and offshore teams (so lots of writing down exactly what he wants, but with no specifics on how it gets implemented).

Re: Learn to code, ignore AI, then use AI to code even better

#50

Post by wickedsight »

I'm getting back into programming after a couple of years other roles. I have to learn a framework I haven't worked before and get to know new paradigms I never used.

In a way, I'm feeling lucky that my company currently explicitly bans the use of AI tools on our code bases (for good reasons). This forces me to write all my own code and understand what it's doing. The only thing I use AI tools for is to explain some new concepts or paradigms in ways I can understand.

What's also great is that I can throw some code from Stack or Github in there and get it explained. I'm glad these tools exist, since they make learning much easier, but they're also a trap if you depend on them in stead of your own knowledge.

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