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How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

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Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#291

Post by grey413 »

Starlevel004 wrote: post #91

I refuse to care about this. A single dash is all I will ever use. I see no possible reason to use the other two.

En dashes, I'll grant you, are pointless. Those can go away.

However, em dashes are a different case. The main reason why it's desirable to use em dashes (beside convention) is for clarity of purpose. The hyphen is already a very overloaded character; they're extensively used to denote ranges and link compound words. Importantly, both of those usages do not correspond to pauses in spoken language. If you're voicing a hyphen you're supposed to barrel on through it. An em dash is much closer to a parenthesis, comma, or semicolon. It's a meaningful break in the sentence, in the way that a hyphen isn't.

Now, if it were up to me I'd choose a different character to replace em dashes (maybe underscores), but that's a separate argument.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#292

Post by akho »

MrJohz wrote: post #25
BalinKing wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This test feels biased by the fact that, like others have said, macOS provides keyboard shortcuts. For example, I'm only Gen Z and yet have tried for many years to use the proper dash characters in the right places, which is made much easier by virtue of being on a Mac. Of course, I guess it's entirely possible—even accounting for OS—that this test remains statistically useful. It makes me kinda sad that my (very muc…

The compose key, for those who use it, also makes it very easy to do em/en dashes, and I use them quite regularly as a result.

`misc:typo` is easier

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#293

Post by grey413 »

BoumTAC wrote: post #282
mmooss wrote: post #142

Here's an easy, if not always precise way to remember: * Hyphens connect things, such as compound words: double-decker , cut-and-dried , 212-555-5555 . * EN dashes make a range between things: Boston–San Francisco flight, 10–20 years: both connect not only the endpoints, but define that all the space between is included. (Compare the last usage with the phone number example under Hyphens.) * EM dashes break things, s…

I'm not a native English speaker, but don't you use the ";" in English ? To me, it feels like it is the same purpose as the EM dashes. And I discovered the EM with ChatGPT, I've never seen it before.

Em dashes are very similar to semicolons. You use em dashes if your related sentence is in the middle of another sentence, and semicolons if it's at the end.

They're frequently used in skilled and professional grade writing.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#294

Post by fernandotakai »

RandallBrown wrote: post #260
fernandotakai wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

uh, really? i really like using em dashes -- for some reason, it feels "better" in my head than using something like a comma or a semi-colon.

Then why didn't you use an em dash?

you can use double dashes to symbolize an em-dash (i prefer to using an actual em-dash, which is option+shift+- in macos).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Approximating_the_em_dash...

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#295

Post by grey413 »

darajava wrote: post #149

Most people don't use the em dash. It's too hard to type and looks too similar to a hyphen. As a result, a hallmark of GPT-generated text is its (over)using of the em dash--I have stopped using it for this reason an just use two hyphens now instead.

Most people don't use em dashes... apart from professional and skilled writers, who use them regularly.

It's a bit of a problem that the same character is both a mark of LLMs and skilled writing.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#296

Post by akho »

lxgr wrote: post #162
n2d4 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alt+hyphen or alt+shift+hyphen is an endash/emdash. You may not have been aware of it because it's so subtle, but many people (including myself) used emdashes long before 2022 (edit: apparently only on Mac, see reply below)

That's one of my favorite features of macOS keyboard layouts, but it's so close to one of my least favorite ones – option + space inserting a non-breaking space. I almost never want that, and when typing "space, en dash, space", it happens quite easily and is usually impossible to tell visually.

You always want a non-breaking space before a dash.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#298

Post by psychoslave »

If you are looking for alternative to kebab case to write identifier in programming language which reserve the - (U+002d) as an operator, chances are good you can use · (U+00B7 · MIDDLE DOT), that we use in middot case.

So isMorePleasantToRead, is_more_pleasant_to_read or is·more·pleasant·to·read is up to you.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#299

Post by WhyNotHugo »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #3

AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two hyphens, like: -- Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon pre-2022.

Just configure something like RightAlt to work as a compose key:

Compose--- produces —

Compose--. produces –

Lots of other characters like áăǎ°±€ are available through compose: https://whynothugo.nl/journal/2024/07/12/typing-non-english-...

> Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer.

Or just someone who likes to use the right characters. There was a report a few months back about how writing from autistic kids keeps getting mislabelled as LLM simply because they use the correct specific terms.

Please stop associating being precise with being an LLM.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#300

Post by pwdisswordfishz » 

        0          0  000048   48             H      LATIN CAPITAL LETTER H
        1          1  00006F   6F             o      LATIN SMALL LETTER O
        2          2  000077   77             w      LATIN SMALL LETTER W
        3          3  000020   20                     SPACE
        4          4  000074   74             t      LATIN SMALL LETTER T
        5          5  00006F   6F             o      LATIN SMALL LETTER O
        6          6  000020   20                     SPACE
        7          7  000055   55             U      LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U
        8          8  000073   73             s      LATIN SMALL LETTER S
        9          9  000065   65             e      LATIN SMALL LETTER E
       10         10  000020   20                     SPACE
       11         11  000045   45             E      LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E
       12         12  00006D   6D             m      LATIN SMALL LETTER M
       13         13  000020   20                     SPACE
       14         14  000044   44             D      LATIN CAPITAL LETTER D
       15         15  000061   61             a      LATIN SMALL LETTER A
       16         16  000073   73             s      LATIN SMALL LETTER S
       17         17  000068   68             h      LATIN SMALL LETTER H
       18         18  000065   65             e      LATIN SMALL LETTER E
       19         19  000073   73             s      LATIN SMALL LETTER S
       20         20  000020   20                     SPACE
       21         21  000028   28             (      LEFT PARENTHESIS
       22         22  002013   E2 80 93       –      EN DASH
       23         25  000029   29             )      RIGHT PARENTHESIS
Ironic.
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