Live data from Hacker News

How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

merriam-webster.com

261–270 of 492 posts

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#261
I had one minor quarrel with this article: The use of spaces (of any kind) before and after the em dash or any dashes.

Personally, I am fond of using either a hair space or a thin space before and after the em dash. Not a full space!

To explore the various options, I wrote a little program to print the various combinations of dashes and spaces. I think what looks best depends a lot on what typeface you're using. But let's see how they look in the Verdana font used here. You should be able to paste this into your favorite word processor to see it in other fonts:

ASCII 0x2D hyphen-with no spaces

ASCII 0x2D hyphen - with U+200A hair spaces

ASCII 0x2D hyphen - with U+2009 thin spaces

ASCII 0x2D hyphen - with 0x20 full spaces

Unicode U+2010 hyphen‐with no spaces

Unicode U+2010 hyphen ‐ with U+200A hair spaces

Unicode U+2010 hyphen ‐ with U+2009 thin spaces

Unicode U+2010 hyphen ‐ with 0x20 full spaces

Unicode U+2013 en dash–with no spaces

Unicode U+2013 en dash – with U+200A hair spaces

Unicode U+2013 en dash – with U+2009 thin spaces

Unicode U+2013 en dash – with 0x20 full spaces

Unicode U+2014 em dash—with no spaces

Unicode U+2014 em dash — with U+200A hair spaces

Unicode U+2014 em dash — with U+2009 thin spaces

Unicode U+2014 em dash — with 0x20 full spaces

It looks like HN is really mangling this. Hair spaces are rendered wider than thin spaces?

If anyone wants to experiment, here is the Python code:

  from dataclasses import dataclass
  
  @dataclass
  class Character:
      char: str
      name: str
  
  DASHES = [
      Character( "-", "ASCII 0x2D hyphen" ),
      Character( "\u2010", "Unicode U+2010 hyphen" ),
      Character( "\u2013", "Unicode U+2013 en dash" ),
      Character( "\u2014", "Unicode U+2014 em dash" ),
  ]
  
  SPACES = [
      Character( "", "no" ),
      Character( "\u200A", "U+200A hair" ),
      Character( "\u2009", "U+2009 thin" ),
      Character( "\x20", "0x20 full" ),
  
  ]
  
  for dash in DASHES:
      for space in SPACES:
          print( f"{dash.name}{space.char}{dash.char}{space.char}with {space.name} spaces\n" )

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#262
post #252
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CMOS is not journalism, so it's not variation from the GP?

A wider number of people use either of them. Every place I’ve used used CMOS which I now use with others.

Company I used to work for used AP for things like press releases and, I think, official blog posts and Chicago plus a couple different tech style guides for everything else.

Basically, we didn’t like some things in AP but we wanted to make it easy for journalists to copy/paste.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#263
I read Butterick's Hyphens and dashes some years ago and it stuck with me. Now I regularly use hyphens, en dashes, and em dashes correctly—I even memorized the Unicode sequences and enter them seamlessly on Linux with Ctrl-Shift-U!

https://practicaltypography.com/hyphens-and-dashes.html

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#264
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On iPhone, type two hyphens to make an em dash: -- into — If OP wrote their post on an iPhone, they would have inadvertently appeared as an LLM by their own test.

Does that become an en dash if it's between two numbers?

It does indeed! One of my favourite iOS keyboard features.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#265
post #142

Here's an easy, if not always precise way to remember: * Hyphens connect things, such as compound words: double-decker , cut-and-dried , 212-555-5555 . * EN dashes make a range between things: Boston–San Francisco flight, 10–20 years: both connect not only the endpoints, but define that all the space between is included. (Compare the last usage with the phone number example under Hyphens.) * EM dashes break things, s…

You are right of course

However this is the kind of rule that "existed" for a while and most likely will go away as most people can't be bothered with the difference and it all looks similar anyway

Or maybe who knows, it will keep going on because chatgpt knows it

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i refuse to care about this lowercase letters are all i will ever use i see no possible reason to use the other symbols Suit yourself, but if you refuse to learn basic grammar you will be treated like you are stupid and uneducated. Like it or not, presentation matters. Getting the basics right, including things like spelling, grammar, etc, shows a basic attention to detail without which your services will likely do m…

> etc, actually it's "etc." (I wouldn't usually be a pedant, but if you think the difference between "--" and "—" matters, you should probably try to get the basics right too.)

Wrong. Look at any dictionary. Etc is completely fine. What next, are you going to pretend you write N.A.S.A. or Mr. White? Come on

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#267
> The en dash is the least loved of all; it’s not easily rendered by the average keyboard user (one has to select it as a special character, whereas the em dash can be conjured with two hyphens)

on macOS:

- - => - (hyphen/minus)

- ⌥ - => – (en dash)

- ⇧ ⌥ - => — (em dash)

There are so many of these convenient typographical shortcuts that a long time ago I made Apple layouts for Windows and Linux.

And many are mnemonic too, like:

- of course ÷ (division) is ⌥ / (slash, which is poor man's division)

- of course ¿ is ⇧ ⌥ / because ⇧ / is ? so logically ⇧ ⌥ / is ⌥ ? which is ¿

- guess what ≤ ≥ ± ≠ are

- ¬ (logical negation) is ⌥ L because it's a L sideways

- £ (pound) is ⌥ 3 because ⇧ 3 is # (octothorpe, abused as sharp or pound - the other kind)

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#270
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s largely the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon. You’ve started noticing it because you just learned about it.

No, it's not. AI uses em dashes far more frequently than the average human.

Why is this getting downvoted? ChatGPT is completely obsessed with em dashes. I don't even know how to make it on my keyboard.
Post reply on HN