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How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

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Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#171

Post by Tmpod »

MrJohz wrote: post #25
BalinKing wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This test feels biased by the fact that, like others have said, macOS provides keyboard shortcuts. For example, I'm only Gen Z and yet have tried for many years to use the proper dash characters in the right places, which is made much easier by virtue of being on a Mac. Of course, I guess it's entirely possible—even accounting for OS—that this test remains statistically useful. It makes me kinda sad that my (very muc…

The compose key, for those who use it, also makes it very easy to do em/en dashes, and I use them quite regularly as a result.

Came to say this as well. I use the compose key to write em dashes and other symbols on a daily basis. Very handy!

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#172

Post by xanderlewis »

energy123 wrote: post #170
mmooss wrote: post #142

Here's an easy, if not always precise way to remember: * Hyphens connect things, such as compound words: double-decker , cut-and-dried , 212-555-5555 . * EN dashes make a range between things: Boston–San Francisco flight, 10–20 years: both connect not only the endpoints, but define that all the space between is included. (Compare the last usage with the phone number example under Hyphens.) * EM dashes break things, s…

The em dash is now a GPT-ism and is not advisable unless you want people to think your writing is the output of a LLM.

No, thanks—I’ll keep using them as I always have.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#173

Post by LegionMammal978 »

lucgommans wrote: post #147
crazygringo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who keeps the 1? You write pages 1,003–4, instead of typing out 1,003–1,004 which is just unnecessary. Works the same with two digits, or even three: pp. 1,899–902. This is standard practice and arguably clearer. I've only ever seen it done with page ranges, though. I'm not sure if it's done with year ranges? E.g. 1984–5? Or 1989–92? You work with page ranges constantly in academia, I just don't see year ranges much…

Literally never seen this (wish I could grep all comments I've ever replied to) and I do not understand what makes you say that it's clearer when it's dropping information, making it relative rather than a fully qualified number In speech, it's common, and misunderstandings are usually not a problem (if you're not monologuing on a recording) because someone will just ask; but in writing it looks like the range is the…

MLA-style citations call for abbreviating page ranges in that way. I mostly see it in literary papers, and not many other contexts, so it would be easy to notice them rarely if at all. Outside of that context, I occasionally see it used for year ranges.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#174

Post by wruza »

harrall wrote: post #92
BalinKing wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This test feels biased by the fact that, like others have said, macOS provides keyboard shortcuts. For example, I'm only Gen Z and yet have tried for many years to use the proper dash characters in the right places, which is made much easier by virtue of being on a Mac. Of course, I guess it's entirely possible—even accounting for OS—that this test remains statistically useful. It makes me kinda sad that my (very muc…

On iPhone, type two hyphens to make an em dash: -- into — If OP wrote their post on an iPhone, they would have inadvertently appeared as an LLM by their own test.

I hate that this feature doesn't have a timeout, so when you want to type "--" you have to "- -" and then go back and delete the space. You can't just wait as with double-space vs space-wait-space. It can be turned off, but that turns off other locale-based punctuation like quotes.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#175

Post by ogurechny »

hiccuphippo wrote: post #126
tshaddox wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been Googling "em dash" and copypasting from the Google results for a solid 15 years now. Long before LLMs.

I modify the keymap to use AltGr+dash as em dash. Very easy in Linux with xmodmap, bit more complicated in Windows with the Keyboard Layout Creator.

`misc:typo` has been in xkb for about 15 years. There's also xkb-birman (matching the current state of the project that inspired all of it). If your national layout does not have level 3 and 4 symbols set, those should work straight away. If it does, it is highly likely that they clash, so you need to create a suitable subset. It is highly advised to find like-minded people, discuss the best options, and then gently push the result to upstream to make it available for everyone. After all, it's Linux, if you won't do it, no one will.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#176

Post by zahlman »

lucgommans wrote: post #155
zahlman wrote: post #19

$ python -m this | grep '--' -

Is this meaning to grep for a double hyphen from standard in, or to mark the start of positional arguments and then grep for a hyphen? If you want both, it should be: $ python -m this | grep -- -- - Which is just beautiful (Your example causes the last hyphen to be grepped for, which happens to only match doubled-up ones because single ones don't occur in that text. The quotes/apostrophes do nothing because they're p…

Oh, of course simply quoting it doesn't disable the special meaning of --, because quoting is handled by the shell and argument parsing is handled by the program.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#177

Post by alt187 »

energy123 wrote: post #170
mmooss wrote: post #142

Here's an easy, if not always precise way to remember: * Hyphens connect things, such as compound words: double-decker , cut-and-dried , 212-555-5555 . * EN dashes make a range between things: Boston–San Francisco flight, 10–20 years: both connect not only the endpoints, but define that all the space between is included. (Compare the last usage with the phone number example under Hyphens.) * EM dashes break things, s…

The em dash is now a GPT-ism and is not advisable unless you want people to think your writing is the output of a LLM.

The letter 'm' is now a GPT-ism and is not advisable unless you want people to think your writing is the output of a LLM.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#178

Post by darajava »

emmelaich wrote: post #158
darajava wrote: post #149

Most people don't use the em dash. It's too hard to type and looks too similar to a hyphen. As a result, a hallmark of GPT-generated text is its (over)using of the em dash--I have stopped using it for this reason an just use two hyphens now instead.

You mean en dash?

No. Em dashes are to separate two thoughts in one sentence. En dashes are for denoting ranges.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#180

Post by rappatic »

I use em dashes all the time in writing, but unfortunately ChatGPT and co. use the em dash frequently—and most people use the em dash infrequently, not knowing how to type it on a keyboard—so it's starting to make my writing look AI-generated sometimes. I fear it'll have to go the way of words like "tapestry."

FWIW, you can type an em dash on Mac with shift + option + hyphen.

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