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I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

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Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#201

I get so confused on this. I play around, test, and mess with LLMs all the time and they are miraculous. Just amazing, doing things we dreamed about for decades. I mean, I can ask for obscure things with subtle nuance where I misspell words and mess up my question and it figures it out. It talks to me like a person. It generates really cool images. It helps me write code. And just tons of other stuff that astounds me…

I have it help me with reporting (with private info taken out of course). I've easily saved myself hundreds of hours already.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#202

So many people putting expectations up to knock down about models. Infinite reasons to critique them. Please dispense with anyone's "expectations" when critiquing things! (Expectations are not a fault or property of the object of the expectations.) Today's models (1) do things that are unprecedented. Their generality of knowledge, and ability to weave completely disparate subjects together sensibly, in real time (and…

Are they progressing quickly? Or was there a step-function leap about 2 years ago, and incremental improvements since then?

I tried using AI coding assistants. My longest stint was 4 months with Copilot. It sucked. At its best, it does the same job as IntelliSense but slower. Other times it insisted on trying to autofill 25 lines of nonsense I didn't ask for. All the time I saved using Copilot was lost debugging the garbage Copilot wrote.

Perplexity was nice to bounce plot ideas off of for a game I'm working on... until I kept asking for more and found that it'll only generate the same ~20ish ideas over and over, rephrased every time, and half the ideas are stupid.

The only use case that continues to pique my interest is Notion's AI summary tool. That seems like a genuinely useful application, though it remains to be seen if these sorts of "sidecar" services will justify their energy costs anytime soon.

Now, I ask: if these aren't the "right" use cases for LLMs, then what is, and why do these companies keep putting out products that aren't the "right" use case?

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wah, it can't write code like a Senior engineer with 20 years of experience! No, that's not my problem with it. My problem with it is that inbuilt into the models of all LLMs is that they'll fabricate a lot. What's worse, people are treating them as authoritative. Sure, sometimes it produces useful code. And often, it'll simply call the "doTheHardPart()" method. I've even caught it literally writing the wrong algor…

Humans bullshit and hallucinate and claim authority without citation or knowledge. They will believe all manner of things. They frequently misunderstand. The LLM doesn’t need to be perfect. Just needs to beat a typical human. LLM opponents aren’t wrong about the limits of LLMs. They vastly overestimate humans.

> LLM opponents aren’t wrong about the limits of LLMs. They vastly overestimate humans.

On the contrary. Humans can earn trust, learn, and can admit to being wrong or not knowing something. Further, humans are capable of independent research to figure out what it is they don't know.

My problem isn't that humans are doing similar things to LLMs, my problem is that humans can understand consequences of bullshitting at the wrong time. LLMs, on the other hand, operate purely on bullshitting. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong. But what they'll never do or tell you is "how confident am I that this answer is right". They leave the hard work of calling out the bullshit on the human.

There's a level of social trust that exists which LLMs don't follow. I can trust when my doctor says "you have a cold" that I probably have a cold. They've seen it a million times before and they are pretty good at diagnosing that problem. I can also know that doctor is probably bullshitting me if they start giving me advice for my legal problems, because it's unlikely you are going to find a doctor/lawyer.

> Just needs to beat a typical human.

My issue is we can't even measure accurately how good humans are at their jobs. You now want to trust that the metrics and benchmarks used to judge LLMs are actually good measures? So much of the LLM advocates try and pretend like you can objectively measure goodness in subjective fields by just writing some unit tests. It's literally the "Oh look, I have an oracle java certificate" or "Aws solutions architect" method of determining competence.

And so many of these tests aren't being written by experts. Perhaps the coding tests, but the legal tests? Medical tests?

The problem is LLM companies are bullshiting society on how competently they can measure LLM competence.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#204

I get so confused on this. I play around, test, and mess with LLMs all the time and they are miraculous. Just amazing, doing things we dreamed about for decades. I mean, I can ask for obscure things with subtle nuance where I misspell words and mess up my question and it figures it out. It talks to me like a person. It generates really cool images. It helps me write code. And just tons of other stuff that astounds me…

I agree. I recently asked if a certain GPU would fit in a certain computer... And it understood that fit could mean physically inside by could also mean that the interface is compatible, and answered both.

WhY aRe PeOpLe BuLlIsH

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#205
I wonder if this site isn't impressed because there are a lot of 1% coders here that don't understand what most people do at work. It's mostly administrative. Take this spreadsheet, combine with this one, stuff it into power BI, email it to Debbie so she can spell check it and send to the client. Y'all forget there are companies that actually make things that don't have insane valuations like your bullshit apps do. A company that scopes municipal sewer pipes can't afford a $500k/yr dev, so there's a few $60k/yr office workers that fiddle with reports and spreadsheets all day. It's literally a whole department in some cases. Those are the jobs that are about to be replaced and there are a lot of those jobs out there.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#206
post #67

Here's one simple reason: I have a very specific esoteric question like: "What material is both electrically conductive and good at blocking sound?" I could type this into google and sift through the titles and short descriptions of websites and eventually maybe find an answer, or I can put the question to the LLM and instantly get an answer that I can then research further to confirm. This is significantly faster, m…

I mean, the first link I got when I pasted that in is probably the Stack Exchange thread you would use to research further, along with other sources, which do seem relevant to the query. I don't see how an LLM is significantly faster or more informative, since you still have to do the legwork to validate the answer. I guess if you're google-phobic (which a lot of people seem to be, especially on HN) then I can see ho…

The first stackexchange link I see answers the question of thermal conductivity, not electrical. Google is convinced I didn’t actually mean electrical. Forcing it to include electrical brings up nothing of use.

The Google AI summary suggests MLV which is wrong.

ChatGPT suggests using copper which is also wrong.

I call bullshit on the entire affair.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#208

If there's one common thread across LLM criticisms, it's that they're not perfect. These critics don't seem to have learned the lesson that the perfect is the enemy of the good . I use ChatGPT all the time for academic research. Does it fabricate references? Absolutely, maybe about a third of the time. But has it pointed me to important research papers I might never have found otherwise? Absolutely . The rate of inac…

> Does it fabricate references? Absolutely, maybe about a third of the time

And you don't have concerns about that? What kind of damage is that doing to our society, long term, if we have a system that _everyone_ uses and it's just accepted that a third of the time it is just making shit up?

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#210
Walk into any coffee shop or office and I can guarantee that you'll see several people actively typing into ChatGPT or Claude. If it was so useless, four years on, why would people be bothering with it?

I don't think you can even be bullish or bearish about this tech. It's here and it's changing pretty much every sector you can think of. It would be like saying you're not bullish about the Internet.

I honestly can't imagine life without one of these tools. I have a subscription to pretty much all of them because I get so excited to try out new models.

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