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How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

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101–110 of 492 posts

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#101

AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two hyphens, like: -- Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon pre-2022.

I disagree—LLMs don't use them properly. They always put a space between the words before – and after – the dashed part.

Using spaces is not wrong. Typographically, a hair space or another thinner than usual space is usually used, but in plain text a space is often preferred. Style guides vary of opinion on this, but newspapers often space them. Without a space they end up looking like elongated hyphens joining the words on both sides. That's not their function.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#102

AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two hyphens, like: -- Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon pre-2022.

I've tried to use real hyphens and dashes since learning a bit about typography roughly 10–15 years ago. macOS makes it really easy with just alt and hyphen for en-dash, shift+alt and hyphen for em-dash. Definitely not an "obvious tell" of an LLM!

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#103
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This test feels biased by the fact that, like others have said, macOS provides keyboard shortcuts. For example, I'm only Gen Z and yet have tried for many years to use the proper dash characters in the right places, which is made much easier by virtue of being on a Mac. Of course, I guess it's entirely possible—even accounting for OS—that this test remains statistically useful. It makes me kinda sad that my (very muc…

On iPhone, type two hyphens to make an em dash: -- into — If OP wrote their post on an iPhone, they would have inadvertently appeared as an LLM by their own test.

Does that become an en dash if it's between two numbers?

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#104

I refuse to care about this. A single dash is all I will ever use. I see no possible reason to use the other two.

Throwing my hat in here. The sub millimeter difference in the length of a dash conveys no additional meaning or clarity. It is impossible to argue me out of this position.

It's not like you can reliably write these consistently by hand either without going over the top in length to make it extremely obvious.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#105

I refuse to care about this. A single dash is all I will ever use. I see no possible reason to use the other two.

uh, really?

i really like using em dashes -- for some reason, it feels "better" in my head than using something like a comma or a semi-colon.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#106

Somewhat off topic, however, I'm thoroughly convinced that there is a very high probability something is AI generated when I see Em dashes. Anyone else noticing this? ChatGPT for example almost always uses them. I'm sure they are more common in academic writing, but its now super common on boards like Reddit.

I've encountered and used em dashes regularly for the last 20 years. If most of your reading and writing are associated with social media, I could see the trend you're describing appearing real within that limited context. But em dashes are not new and have been a feature of high quality writing for many decades.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#107

AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two hyphens, like: -- Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon pre-2022.

The lack of em dash usage in popular culture speaks more about typical people than it does about whether a text's author was an LLM. In fact, the average person has never even noticed—let alone considered—that the em dash exists. If they've read for 20+ years, they've seen at LEAST hundreds of them.

Imagine being an NPC (a human bot), flattering yourself with the thought that people who understand the language are language bots...

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#108

I refuse to care about this. A single dash is all I will ever use. I see no possible reason to use the other two.

Throwing my hat in here. The sub millimeter difference in the length of a dash conveys no additional meaning or clarity. It is impossible to argue me out of this position. It's not like you can reliably write these consistently by hand either without going over the top in length to make it extremely obvious.

Length of breath/pause with a longer dash. Read some -- Emily Dickinson poems – you'll find a world ––– of meaning ––– in the millimeter.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#109

AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two hyphens, like: -- Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon pre-2022.

I use --- to represent em dash in prose here, e.g. [1][2]. The behavior is just a residual of long time exposure to TeX.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41833665

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41774199

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#110
We need a blog post documenting the ironic trend of people—themselves NPCs, actual human bots, just now realizing the em dash exists despite seeing it hundreds if not thousands of times before LLMs—flattering themselves by suggesting that anyone who understands the language at above a 5th grade level must be an LLM.
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