Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

merriam-webster.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 492 posts

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#21

Post by mkehrt »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #3

AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two hyphens, like: -- Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon pre-2022.

I always use an em dash when possible when I should, and double en dash when I can't, just because I'm that kind of nerd. But it is the case that a double en dash on iOS autocorrects to an em dash, so I'm suspicious of the claim that em dashes are a tell for LLM writing.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#23

Post by sandbach »

Robert Bringhurst¹ prefers the en dash in the context of setting off phrases:

"The em dash is the nineteenth-century standard, still prescribed in many editorial style books, but the em dash is too long for use with the best text faces. Like the oversized space between sentences, it belongs to the padded and corseted aesthetic of Victorian typography.

"Used as a phrase marker – thus – the en dash is set with a normal word space either side."

¹https://archive.org/details/isbn_9780881791327/page/80/mode/...

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#24

Post by BalinKing »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #3

AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two hyphens, like: -- Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon pre-2022.

This test feels biased by the fact that, like others have said, macOS provides keyboard shortcuts. For example, I'm only Gen Z and yet have tried for many years to use the proper dash characters in the right places, which is made much easier by virtue of being on a Mac.

Of course, I guess it's entirely possible—even accounting for OS—that this test remains statistically useful. It makes me kinda sad that my (very much human-generated) writing fails the Turing test....

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#25

Post by MrJohz »

BalinKing wrote: post #24
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #3

AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two hyphens, like: -- Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon pre-2022.

This test feels biased by the fact that, like others have said, macOS provides keyboard shortcuts. For example, I'm only Gen Z and yet have tried for many years to use the proper dash characters in the right places, which is made much easier by virtue of being on a Mac. Of course, I guess it's entirely possible—even accounting for OS—that this test remains statistically useful. It makes me kinda sad that my (very muc…

The compose key, for those who use it, also makes it very easy to do em/en dashes, and I use them quite regularly as a result.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#26

Post by bangaladore »

Somewhat off topic, however, I'm thoroughly convinced that there is a very high probability something is AI generated when I see Em dashes. Anyone else noticing this?

ChatGPT for example almost always uses them. I'm sure they are more common in academic writing, but its now super common on boards like Reddit.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#27

Post by asplake »

sandbach wrote: post #23

Robert Bringhurst¹ prefers the en dash in the context of setting off phrases: "The em dash is the nineteenth-century standard, still prescribed in many editorial style books, but the em dash is too long for use with the best text faces. Like the oversized space between sentences, it belongs to the padded and corseted aesthetic of Victorian typography. "Used as a phrase marker – thus – the en dash is set with a normal…

I think of that as “British” style (as opposed to American). I think it’s more common here and I certainly prefer it

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#28

Post by edflsafoiewq »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #3

AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two hyphens, like: -- Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon pre-2022.

It's — in HTML or Markdown.

If you use eg. a Japanese IME, you can also get it by typing a normal hyphen and selecting the em dash from the picker.

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#29

Post by layman51 »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #3

AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two hyphens, like: -- Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon pre-2022.

That’s interesting to note. I have usually taken the time to properly use en-dashes when it seems appropriate because I frequently deal with strings that represent academic years. At least where I live, these span two calendar years. I have noticed that a lot of college websites tend to use the en-dash properly (e.g. on their academic calendar webpages).

Re: How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

#30

Post by mychaelangelo »

bangaladore wrote: post #26

Somewhat off topic, however, I'm thoroughly convinced that there is a very high probability something is AI generated when I see Em dashes. Anyone else noticing this? ChatGPT for example almost always uses them. I'm sure they are more common in academic writing, but its now super common on boards like Reddit.

I’ve noticed this, too. ChatGPT especially overuses them relative to other models. It’s an easy tell-sign that something is probably LLM-written.
Post reply on HN