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The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

daringfireball.net

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Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#91
post #57

As someone who's been reading Daring Fireball since 2004 and considers themselves an Apple fan, I think the algorithm is working exactly as intended if it's designed to limit intellectually dishonest content. Gruber has built a career on a predictable pattern: vociferously defend Apple's every decision (even contradicting his own previous positions when Apple changes course), construct elaborate post-rationalizations…

I want to start off by seeing I totally get your point. Still I disagree.

Where I think we agree is that John Gruber (JG) is 99% Apple's "ideal customer", while most HN readers are not: just like Apple he cares a lot about "nice things", "it just works", "the best experience" etc. even if it comes at the expense of price, consumer choice, open specifications, interoperability with other ecosystems etc. So we can intellectually disagree with JG when he defends some proprietary thing Apple built, but when JG writes that he loves that he himself is at least honest (and not an "apologist").

Where we probably disagree is where he (in your eyes) "vociferously defend Apple's every decision". I think JG is often not defending Apple, but just explaining why they are doing the wrong/bad/weird thing. Similarly to how a newspaper can explain why Putin thinks he's in the right invading Ukraine: they are explaining the reasoning, not defending it.

So we have a man that loves most of what Apple does because of an aligned view on what consumer tech should be, and "kremlinologizes" even when his views and Apple's might differ. Which gives the impression of a total apologist. Maybe (if he cares) JG could indicate a little better the times he's explaining Apple, not defending it.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#93

Two wrongs don’t make a right. HN and DF are both stubbornly wrong about refusing to use good typography and a sensible approach to responsive design. I know that stubbornness and misplaced pride go hand in hand, but it’s harming the both of them. I would definitely read DF more often if I didn’t have to use Safari’s reader mode just to be able to read it.

Seems like bikeshedding to bring up typography. The greater matter is refusal to engage in civil, if lively, discussion and instead retreat into prior restraint and helicopter paternalistic declarations of what can and cannot be discussed.

Gruber brought it up, I’m just responding.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#94
post #82

This is weird. I know that there is a certain anti-Apple sentiment among many HN users (and I know my own posts get little traction here because of the domain name-or because of my employer…), but the gap here feels much wider.

I'm rather anti-Apple but even I enjoy John's site from time to time. Hell, I had to vouch for this post just to see it. I can't think of any legitimate reason for his content to get flagged as often as it does and it's been happening for years.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#97
post #71

Why is this article flagged? Hacker News and Daring Fireball have so much in common: 1. Both long-running sites 2. Both serve a curious and tech savvy audience 3. Both run zero graphics 4. Both appreciate / provide long-form journalism They should be fine bedfellows. What's going on?

My bet is that there are actual people with enough karma automatically flagging every df post without considering the content for a second. Would be cool if @dang could check the flagging data in the articles since the massive drop in 2021 and see if there are any patterns (same people doing the flagging for every article).

I think the simplest and most likely explanation is that it’s dang himself who has a problem with Gruber.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#98

[flagged]

What counts as an unhinged Trump take these days? Is it like "yes, we should invade Canada!" I don't expect anyone to change their vote based on a three sentence HN comment. It's just... it's an amusing accusation that someone's takes on Trump are irrational, when those takes are about the wackiest POTUS in history.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bet is that there are actual people with enough karma automatically flagging every df post without considering the content for a second. Would be cool if @dang could check the flagging data in the articles since the massive drop in 2021 and see if there are any patterns (same people doing the flagging for every article).

I think the simplest and most likely explanation is that it’s dang himself who has a problem with Gruber.

Yea, that's the saddest option. And I'll lean towards it unless dang weighs in on the thread somehow.

Something happened in 2021 and mysteriously DF articles just fall off the front page immediately.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#100
Moderation on HN is probably the most transparent you’ll find anywhere aside from Wikipedia, and HN is better than WP in terms of unbiased moderation. Dang and team have a stellar reputation and the idea that they’re covertly blacklisitng a personal blog is really silly.

OP’s submissions are likely not popular because of a mixture of them being not that interesting or useful and also contentious. Contentious submissions get massively reduced in visibility automatically. And stuff like an iPhone review significantly after other mainstream reviews is just not that interesting.

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